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Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5501: Mar 6th 2014 at 10:46:34 AM

One, Tobias, there is no canon. Cut it out. Two, Dai Kaio was mentioned to exist in the manga. He was just shown in the anime. Three, the Kaios and Kaioshin ARE the same species. The Core People. They're born from the same divine fruit. Some, but all, of them are selected for the limited number of available godly positions.

Shenron doesn't really count as a god. He can be considered one, but he doesn't fit into the hierarchy. The hierarchy goes like this:

At the very bottom are the local deities, like Kami. They oversee individual planets, and can call in favors from the Afterlife. Anyone can have this post, you don't have to be born into it.

Then come the Kaios. There's five of them, one for each of the four galaxies, and the Dai Kaio, basically their manager. Their main job is to act as helpers to the main Kaioshin, and deal with small things that the Kaioshin can't or won't. According to Toriyama, this is because, well, there are a lot of planets.

Emma is the guy who judges souls in the Afterlife, decides who goes to heaven, who gets reincarnated, who keeps their body, etc. He doesn't appear to be part of the main hierarchy, even though the Kaios are above him in power and prestige.

The Kaioshin are after the Kaios (including Dai Kaio) They're born from the same divine fruit as the Kaios, except their fruits are rare and gold. They're basically the Kaios, but MORE! They're creation gods, responsible for overseeing the universe, providing the impetus for new planets to be born, dividing up planets, making sure life flourishes on them, transporting life forms from other planets to new ones, etc. all but one or two are dead now. Their manager is the Dai Kaioshin, the highest member of the hierarchy... technically.

Beers, if he is to be counted, is the god of destruction. His job is to destroy planets so new ones can be born. He's not technically part of the hierarchy, but should be the de facto highest on part of being the strongest. It is implied that, like Kami, Beers' position is just a job (and maybe a power boost) granted to a particularly notable mortal, rather than being something you are born into like the Kaio/Kaioshin.

At the very top, above all others, is Tori-bot, the nigh omnipotent creator of the universe. No, really.

I should also mention the attendants. They're just assistants to the actual gods, and do not have an actual rank per se. But it seems there are still different types of attendants. Popo is Kami's attendant, Kibito is East Kaioshin's, and Whis is Beers'.

Dabra's Demon Realm also has the Makaioshin. They're what the name suggests: demon Kaioshin. There are five of them, including a Dai Makaioshin. All that's known about them is that, currently, they're weaker than the Kaioshin and Dabra.

Additionally, Karin is implied to be a deity of some kind, but it's never elaborated upon.

Their rank sometimes but not always reflects their power levels. Kami, Popo, and Karin have power levels of only a few hundred. North Kaio and presumably his compatriots have power levels of a few thousand (North was given an official level of 3,500). Kibito is in the tens of millions. Makaioshin are almost certainly in the hundreds of millions (as they're all weaker than the weakest Kaioshin). Dai Kaio is suggested to be in the same league of power as the actual Kaioshin. Said Kaioshin are in the single digit billions, including the Dai Kaioshin. One of them, South Kaioshin, is implied to be in the tens of billions at some points, and shown as such in the anime. Beers is in the hundreds of billions or higher, and Whis is 50% stronger than him.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:10:44 AM by Sockpuppet1

alEKos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#5502: Mar 6th 2014 at 10:52:18 AM

always found it weird the DBZ verse had only 4 galaxies.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5503: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:18:40 AM

[up] Don't get confused. It's stated there are four quadrants not galaxies in the Dragon Ball Universe. A quadrant is essentially one quarter of the whole Universe.

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5504: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:24:06 AM

No, as far as I know there really are only four galaxies.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5505: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:43:53 AM

Wait, Namek isn't just in an entirely different Solar System, it's in another galaxy? Bullshit.

Second_Banana from The Fruit Bowl Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#5506: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:48:07 AM

[up][up]

Galaxy and quadrant seem to be used interchangeably. For instance, it could be said that the North Kai ruled over the North Galaxy, which is also considered the Northern Quadrant, and vice versa. So in that context, both quadrant and galaxy would be correct.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:48:21 AM by Second_Banana

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5507: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:48:09 AM

I'm pretty sure both Namek and Earth are in the north galaxy. What suggests otherwise?

edited 6th Mar '14 11:51:47 AM by Sockpuppet1

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5508: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:49:01 AM

[up]Then why does King Kai have no jurisdiction over it? That was a plot point with them not being able to revive Krillin before they brought his soul to Earth.

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5509: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:52:48 AM

Kaio's job has nothing to do with reviving people or giving back bodies.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:54:20 AM by Sockpuppet1

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5510: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:56:54 AM

He says that Krillin died on Namek so if he's brought back to life he'll appear there even though the planet is gone. They ask him if he can pull some strings to get Krillin brought to Earth but he says Namek is outside of his jurisdiction so it's impossible. If he controls the entire galaxy that would imply that Namek is not in the Milky Way.

edit: I'm basing this on the Kai dub for clarification. Maybe the Japanese and manga had a different explanation so if someone knows feel free to correct me.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:57:37 AM by Kostya

Second_Banana from The Fruit Bowl Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#5511: Mar 6th 2014 at 11:57:41 AM

I think the only thing King Kai said was that it wasn't a good idea to wish Krillin back to life because he had to be wished back to the place where he died, which was Planet Namek and since Frieza had already destroyed it, Krillin would be wished back in the vastness of space where he'd die again anyways.

EDIT: NVM. Didn't really know where you were initially coming from.

edited 6th Mar '14 11:58:35 AM by Second_Banana

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#5512: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:03:57 PM

Immediately afterwards, they wish Yamcha back to life, who promptly appears in the fountain at Capsule Corp, implying that either Porunga was messing with them, or Bulma dumped his corpse in the fountain out of spite.

That, or the universe is willing to defy its own established rules if it means an opportunity to sh*t on Yamcha.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:04:55 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5513: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:06:55 PM

That's something I never noticed. Maybe it has something to do with Porunga being able to bring his soul to the Capsule Corp prior to revival because he was already in the same quadrant or something.

edit: Considering that Chiaotzu, Krillin, and Tien just appear in front of the Dragon Balls with nothing bad happening to them I assume Porunga just doesn't like Yamcha.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:07:47 PM by Kostya

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5514: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:08:27 PM

Just checked, and you're right. In fact, this saga is also where Kaio first introduces himself as the Kaio of the North Galaxy, and he specifically says the area is outside of his jurisdiction, so Namek must be in a different one. That whole scene is bizarrely at odds with his other stated duties, though, and Freeza later implies he never leaves the North Galaxy. Though perhaps Namek was just a special circumstance.

This would also imply that DBU galaxies are quite small. Kami's ship took a couple seconds to reach Jupiter, then "only" took 34 days to reach Namek, in another galaxy. The entire DBM, all 12 universes and their respective realms, could most likely fit comfortably in just our own Milky Way with tons of space to spare. This would fit Daizenshuu 7 implying that the term "galaxies" is just an arbitrary measurement used to divvy up the universe, which is insanely tiny by our standards. Or maybe Toriyama just wasn't thinking of this,

edited 6th Mar '14 12:14:06 PM by Sockpuppet1

Second_Banana from The Fruit Bowl Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#5515: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:08:46 PM

[up][up][up]

That would have made a great joke in DBZ Abridged.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:09:03 PM by Second_Banana

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5516: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:12:55 PM

So Toriyama either contradicts himself or has no sense of scale. Not all that surprising.

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5517: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:18:05 PM

We'll he did have base Buu Saga Goku struggle with 40 tons, while a version of Goku that was literally millions of times weaker could easily push a 500 ton boulder, and base Goku at this point could catch, hold back, launch, and tank blasts with enough force to destroy a planet thousands of times over, and later push mountains. Even Tao had far better strength feats.

He also made Saiyan saga Goku (8,000) faster than base Buu arc Gohan (35,000,000-70,000,000). At least destructive feats are fairly consistent...

edited 6th Mar '14 12:20:16 PM by Sockpuppet1

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5518: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:25:26 PM

Which situation shows Goku as being faster than Gohan? That's the one reference I can't place.

Sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5519: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:32:17 PM

Goku crossing the 1,000,000 kilometer snake way in one day vs Gohan taking 20 minutes to fly a mere 1,000 kilometers from home to school.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#5520: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:35:04 PM

Where are you getting the power levels, from, by the way? I find it really unlikely Beers is only one magnitude above the Kaioshin, considering Goku vastly outpowers the Kaioshin while Beers vastly outpowers Goku.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:36:29 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5521: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:48:13 PM

Oh, that. Yeah, I never thought about that before but that's pretty stupid.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#5522: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:48:17 PM

Goku was basically sprinting for his life to save his friends. Gohan was taking a leisurely stroll.

My various fanfics.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5523: Mar 6th 2014 at 12:54:06 PM

The difference is millions of times greater though. It doesn't matter if Gohan isn't in a hurry unless he's intentionally trying to go unbelievably slow from his perspective.

edited 6th Mar '14 12:54:19 PM by Kostya

Second_Banana from The Fruit Bowl Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#5524: Mar 6th 2014 at 1:05:21 PM

Didn't Gohan use the Flying Nimbus to get to school and back?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5525: Mar 6th 2014 at 1:06:27 PM

Only before he had the Saiyaman disguise.


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