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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55201: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:56:02 AM

The worst thing is, I can see the merits of modern shonen action. The animation tends to be, in general, better than before. There's significantly less extended reaction shots, less staring into dust clouds and people glaring at each other in silence (for all that people say that Dragon Ball is the series where people scream at each other nonstop, that has never been the case - there's many more silent stares than screaming matches) and the pace tends to be much quicker in general, which can be both a good and bad thing.

My problem is that I've seen goddamned shoujo shows that have better action than Dragon Ball Super.

This is not some random anime property, not some OVA stuff or adaptation of a minor franchise or something. This is Dragon Ball, and I expect action on par with the original series. Yes, it had padding up the wazoo, but hell, at least people looked like they were getting into fights.

edited 2nd Apr '17 9:58:46 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55202: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:02:08 AM

The last episode's fight choreography was amazing. Hell, this whole arc has had great fight animation overall so far.

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:03:49 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#55203: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:06:38 AM

Took them long enough.

Better late than never as they say.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55204: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:06:48 AM

To be entirely, a lot of the original series` fights were generally repeating the same "Punch Punch Punch" frame. Additionally, it had a source it was actually adapting that tended to have decent fight choreography and that was expanded on in the Anime, for better or worse. Also, the art in general was way better.

Dragon Ball Super is Anime original, so everything is animated from scratch without references (it's not adapting the manga, keep in mind), and it has a plethora of different Animators working on it. It was never going to look as good as the original series and while that does suck, it's understandable. The original series also had different animators working on it and didn't always look amazing either.

It's not like they just decided "Naw, fuck Dragon Ball" so truthfully, it just depends on what you're willing to accept. To give Super credit, they're at least improving the art steadily.

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:10:32 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55205: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:12:43 AM

I'll give them that credit - their fights don't have awful choreography.

The problem I have with them is that fights in Super just don't have weight to them. There's no real impact, and I think it should be fairly evident that the biggest reason for that is that they're not rearranging the landscape as they fight.

It might sound a bit silly, but part of what made us believe that the characters were strong was just how much more real state they wrecked accidentally while fighting, or how easy they made certain feats look. Freeza's final form only starts looking intimidating when he vaporizes a mountain with a flick of his finger, moving so fast that only one member of the cast is able to react to it.

[up]I don't think the animators went "fuck Dragon Ball", I think Toei went "Whatever, it'll sell anyway, let's not give them as much money, time and people as they need, we need to cut corners".

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:13:21 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55206: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:20:22 AM

And that's all because the manga did it first. Toei have to pretty much do everything not from a source, but by their own admission.

But whatever, I know how stubborn and unflinching you are when you're making a point and I have to go to work.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55207: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:22:18 AM

So what you're saying is that just because they're not starting off from a source, they cannot possibly have fights with any impact whatsoever.

That they cannot do a good job just because it doesn't come from a manga.

I think that you're just making excuses.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#55208: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:24:30 AM

I will give them grief for how they adapted Battle of Gods. So much unnecessary padding and shit, its annoying.

Don't forget the characters lack major visible indicators of damage aside from black scratches.

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:24:45 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55209: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:28:03 AM

[up][up] And I think like most people, you're just quick to throw Toei under the bus the second they do something that you don't like.

Because you're essentially trying to convince me that because the fights aren't up to standards that you prefer that must mean Toei simply "don't care".

As if there couldn't possibly be any of other factors involved that are common in literally every other Anime besides Dragon Ball Super.

Yes I agree the fights are on a much smaller scale than the original series, no I don't believe it's because Toei just don't give a shit. That's a cop out answer and sounds pretty self-serving to me without any confirmation.

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:29:35 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55210: Apr 2nd 2017 at 10:52:29 AM

So sifting through the last few pages the same argument just keeps coming up.

Dragon Ball Super doesn't care about consistency or internal logic. That doesn't really seem debatable anymore, that's just how it is. That being said, if you don't care about those things, and just want to see the characters (besides Goku and Vegeta) do things and be cool, that's fine, but you shouldn't act like other people are obliged not have issues with it or never say anything about it.

That being said, we probably should just let go of the old series comparatively much greater consistency. Super is clearly a different ball game, with different (and in my opinion, much shittier rules) that it's following, and we should all just accept it, and maybe have a faint hope of it getting better at using characters while also not throwing away internal sense.

edited 2nd Apr '17 11:19:18 AM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55211: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:01:12 AM

So you're saying that Toei is a saint of a company, and that I'm 'quick to throw them under the bus'.

Yeah... no.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55212: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:12:53 AM

Where in my entire post was I calling Toei a saint? Literally Where? Point this out to me so I can see it.

[up][up] I'm just here to enjoy the ride tbh

edited 2nd Apr '17 11:14:45 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55213: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:12:59 AM

He wasn't saying they were saints.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55214: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:17:47 AM

It's less that people shouldn't air their grievances with the show, it's more that that seems to be the only thing some people are interested in doing, and they go on about it for pages, making the thread very negative and repetitive, especially for the people who enjoyed the episode and want to talk about its good points.

And this episode did have good points, such as the gorgeous fight animation and choreography, the character development just oozing out of the characters, the fantastic dialogue, the great sound design, etc. Really, the only flaw with the episode is the Power Levels, and it's subjective at that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#55215: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:20:26 AM

Ya know if Potarra fusions were still permanent Vegeta & Goku could use it to give themselves a pretty big advantage I think.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55216: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:21:15 AM

I mean, everything else you described is also subjective. Going "it's subjective" is not a defensive against complaining about something. Or praising it, for that matter, but the arguments for why it's bad seem more fleshed out than why it's okay.

edited 2nd Apr '17 11:21:37 AM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55217: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:21:33 AM

Dragon Ball Super, doesn't care about consistency or internal logic. That doesn't really seem debatable anymore, that's just how it is. That being said, if you don't care about those things, and just want to see the characters (besides Goku and Vegeta) do things and be cool, that's fine, but you shouldn't act like other people are obliged not have issues with it or never say anything about it.

...I can do that. I admit, while I get while others have a problem with it, I realize I really don't care that much. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride.

I'm watching a video right now by Masako, and it points out how Goku learned he needs to learn to fight as part as a team. This is a lesson Goku has needed since Resurrection F...or even farther back. I mean, he's never been one for asking for help in his fights. It's happened (him and Piccolo vs Raditz, or both time he and Vegeta fused) but in most cases, if he didn't think he needed it (or if the other guy wasn't on his level) then he didn't bother.

Goku learning to be a team player; Gohan and Krillin regaining their fighting spirits; stuff like this has been interesting for me to watch. I hoping to see more of.

It's a shame that Super had to toss the consistency of the previous series out the window to make this work, but I'm just gonna take it and run with it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#55218: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:38:45 AM

Man y'all are so tiresome sometimes.

Toei a shit and so are powerlevel scaling, but despite that DBS has been getting exciting. I ain't gonna be one of 'em people who say DB as a whole is a gag-series, but I will say that DB is an action series written by a gag-mangaka.

To be honest, I feel the only reason Toriyama gave DB that first Tourney Saga decades back was so he could get his editors off his back for the waning popularity of the Pilaf Saga, but since then everybody expects him to do action every week for every chapter and episode, only giving him a once-in-a-while smidgen of time to do gags here and there. I bet he felt happy when he was able to do those Dr. Slump crossovers because he was going back in his comfort zone. But despite that, he did become one of the greatest action-mangaka to everyone globally, even if he didn't really want to.

He made stories feel very compelling with saga as time went on, but as the powers started scaling, many characters started jobbing and falling behind. Yamcha, Roshi, Tien, Chiaotzu, Krillin, the Androids, Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, Buu, the list goes on and on and on with how many previously powerful friends and rivals became the next discarded trash as Goku kept exceeding everyone that exists.

And I believe that's why the Universal Survival Saga is being made in the first place. This is probably the first time in a long while most of these returning characters have fought, and Toriyama with the help of Toei and Toyotaro, is going to try to make a show of it, by putting them in a multiversal battle royal! Is it nonsensical and shit on most previous ideologies that the series has put out, fuck yeah it's infuriating, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hype, and the past 7 episodes so far made me far more excited that the previous DBS sagas combined.

This ain't the just Goku Show, this is the Universe 7 Show, a team of fuck ups who keep on fighting even if they all aren't the strongest.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55219: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:47:11 AM

[up]

Rob can dig that. I've gotten too caught up in that shit like I said above. I'm gonna enjoy the show.

Power Levels may not be bullshit, but they are too limiting. Lets just enjoy seeing some of our favourites fight.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55220: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:54:18 AM

It's easier to detail why you hate something than why you love it in most cases.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#55221: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:59:00 AM

I honestly don't really care about Earthlings. I'm more interested in the new characters from other universes. Shame that because of the tournament format we'll probably won't get much insight into most of them.

All of this is just padding until Goku vs Jiren anyway.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55222: Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:02:25 PM

I'm still interested in Roccol.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#55223: Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:02:46 PM

I would have liked to see a powerful new alien character join the cast.

Considering how naturally strong Frieza is it wouldn't be ridiculous to introduce someone who can fight on par with Goku.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55224: Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:06:43 PM

They could still totally do that. They kind of did with Hit.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55225: Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:07:38 PM

I'm starting to feel like this Super has retroactively become a case of a Magnum Opus Dissonance. I'll detail later when I'm not on my phone.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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