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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55176: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:31:15 AM

[up][up]But you are.

edited 2nd Apr '17 7:31:46 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#55177: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:41:04 AM

Okay, so Super given up on even pretending that it want to be consistent or make sense anymore, and just does whatever it wants. Sure, fine why not, I don't care anymore.

The funniest bit of this episode was Krilling going "Remember, this is not a fight to the death, there are rules" and the launching a barrage of Kienzans as his opening move. I mean dude. [lol]

Wait, did Buu lose weight?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55178: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:46:56 AM

No I'm not.

Super is.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#55179: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:03:32 AM

To be fair Goku went Super Saiyan immediately after.

     

edited 2nd Apr '17 8:03:59 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55180: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:08:14 AM

I'm pretty sure Cell didn't feel an electrical shock while he was busy getting disintegrated.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#55181: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:12:57 AM

Gohan was 13-15 at the time. He didn't program his Kamehameha for that kind of use because he was homeschooled and single.

edited 2nd Apr '17 6:22:23 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#55182: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:28:43 AM

But it's also just really silly that Kuririn talks about how skilled he is, or Gohan calls himself inexperienced, when that has never come up before.

The point was that Gohan is not used to tournament style rules where you lose when you ring out, and that's how Krillin got the drop on him.

Anyway, having just watched the episode it seems weird that people are getting so salty over Krillin having unearned jumps in power when the entire point of the Kamehameha clash was that he was completely outclassed against Goku.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#55183: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:32:56 AM

My only complaint about the episode is that Goku uses Blue waaaay too much in non-threatening battles ever since he got it. Why does he always show off his trump card right from the start in friendly fights, but take forever to use it against villains?

So the Kamehameha Wave's impact feels like an electrical shock?

I think Krillin's referring more to how he felt being in a serious fight again.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55184: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:35:36 AM

He didn't use Blue as a trump card here: he used it to challenge Krillin on what he will do when he comes across a God level opponent, which he probably will in this tournament.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55185: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:37:01 AM

Fleshing out the concept of God ki would have allowed for it to even the playing field if they so desired. Make God ki less of a plot device and have the secondary characters devote time and effort toward gaining it. It's still got problems - it effectively means most of the casts previous development is obseleted - but throwing out the consistency also does that, in a much worse way.

I kinda like this. There's been a lot more discussions since then about everything, but I think, at the core, the problem is that well, as others have said, Power has always been the name of the game in DBZ.

Someone would fight Goku, and he'd either start steamrolling them because they were stronger, or get beat. If it's the latter, it's the opponent who usually struggles to overcome him with clever strategies or cool tricks which he himself overcomes either through more brute force, his own clever strategies, or simply no selling the technique without even knowing what it was (poor Spike the Devil Man).

This doesn't count all the times where he took out an opponent in one or two hits despite them being hyped up as strong before hand, just to show how far ahead Goku was compared to everyone else. Skill is important, but without the power to back it up (since your foes will likely be just as skilled), your right fucked.

That's why some people are having such issues with Krillin's sudden talk of being so skilled. Is it true? Technically yeah; he's been fighting far long than Gohan. Should it matter? Nope. Gohan is at a level where his lack of skill compared to Krillin (even if he's also been fighting since he's was even younger than Krillin was) is utterly irrelevant, because that's how Toriyama himself made it. I mean, I can (and will) argue that the difference between Gohan's fight in the exhibition match and the battle with Krillin is that Gohan had time to figure out what was going on there (he already knew he couldn't sense wolf dude's ki) whereas with Krillin, the sudden ki suppressing effect of the Solar Flare caught him off guard and it took him too long to adapt. That's being generous though.

I want the other characters to be able to do things; I just want it to be plausible within the rules set up by the series. Unfortunately, the rules say, he with the most Ki will often win (barring a surprise attack or a technique that ignores power, and even those aren't a sure thing if the other guy is strong enough). And since Toriyama long decided to push the other characters out of the fighting spotlight, while continually elevating Goku and Vegeta it's something of a no win situation.

So I can kinda see both sides here.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55186: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:38:11 AM

It's not a Trump Card.

The Trump Card would be SSJB KK x10 if that's still his limit, or his Kaioken limit if he's gone beyond it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55187: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:39:43 AM

Part of me wants to drop this thread and just never look back, but then I don't really have anywhere to discuss this series. And even if I did, I doubt it would be much better anywhere else. So I'm kinda stuck.

So fuck it, I'm just going to ignore the last three pages. Episode was pretty good, did a fine job of establishing how the tournament is going to go down.

edited 2nd Apr '17 8:42:53 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55188: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:44:46 AM

Gohan's reaction wasn't oh i don't know how to deal with this, it was wait I wasn't expecting this at this moment. Also just because he has lost his sight to poison before doesn't mean having his retinas seared wouldn't bother him. Me gettin shot in the gut isn't gonna make me gettin stabbed later in the gut a non issue.

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#55189: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:47:06 AM

I don't understand why it seems so difficult for people to grasp certain things. The whole point of Blue being used this episode was to test Krillin's resolve. To see how he would handle a foe with that level of power. Goku even freaking says 'what will you do now Krillin'? I mean, I don't see why people are struggling with this bit. I mean its pretty obvious if Goku was going all out be would have destroyed the planet, so clearly holding back.

Also about the solar flare thing. Saiga do a manga search.

I'm pretty sure every instance of the Solar Flare has the corresponding person hit with it momentarily paralyzed for a few seconds which is what Krillin capitalized on.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55190: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:48:36 AM

Goku was clearly testing 18 as well. The whole thing including the beam struggle was likely set up to see if should would get involved.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55191: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:55:00 AM

Little thing that no-one mentioned: I like that Gohan is really taking on the responsibility of planning out U7's battle strategy.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55192: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:55:07 AM

Fuck, I missed a chance to recommend Slayers two pages ago.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55193: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:07:49 AM

So yea, having watched the episode, it was pretty great. It was fun watching Krillin work after so long. And Goku understands that he can't just gung ho it alone.

(sigh) So now, I have to address the elephant in the room; yes, it is ridiculous that Krillin has improved so much off screen and the fact that show is pretending that he's in the same ball park as Goku or Gohan. It pretty much just flies straight into how the series used to do Power levels, but as was said, Super pretty clearly does not measure power the same way as the original series does, so at this point if they're going to ignore consistency, I may as well do the same.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#55194: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:10:08 AM

I honestly don't even care that Krillin got a massive boost. It's great.

Poor Gohan exists purely to suffer at this point, though.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55195: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:14:02 AM

I find it uninteresting because there was a way to use the weaker characters without powering them up for the tournament, but that would requires remaking how the tournament operates and would eventually pad out the Saga to the point that Namek looks brisk.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#55196: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:21:19 AM

Did Krillin really get powered up, though? The main thing he was doing to fight against them both was trying to ring them out.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55197: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:27:07 AM

If he didn't get a power up, then it's even dumber that the series tries to portray him as being able to keep up with Goku or Gohan. He just can now because the plot requires him to be that strong in order to be relevant. It's funny how it's the exact thing some people didn't want to happen in the series to the weaker characters.

Oh well, what can you do. I really wish people didn't try to justify it though because there's nothing to justify it and trying to rationalize it when the series doesn't even try to only serves to make excessive arguments on nothing like the last couple of pages have been.

edited 2nd Apr '17 9:28:24 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55198: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:47:07 AM

Dragon Ball Super discards Power Levels in favor of Rule of Cool, and I love it.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55199: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:50:23 AM

It's just an Ass Pull. That's all there is to it.

Dragon Ball Super does not care about consistency and plot stability. All it cares about is how 'cool' it looks.

It's not Dragon Ball, it's just a modern Shonen Action Shitshow.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#55200: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:52:38 AM

Huh that's a good way to put it actually.

Future Trunks' spirit sword is something that feels more modern. Its a weird feeling that makes it different from the rest even the battle that does end with a spirit bomb.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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