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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55126: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:33:34 PM

Simply: don't have Kuririn reach this plateau of strength. Even if they want to use him more, it's simply not necessary to have him gain this power. For all the talk of "power doesn't make good characters" you'd think it'd be fine to utilize the characters in ways that are not trying to make them look awesome.

If, for whatever reason, you absolutely must have them become powerful fighters, put some effort into it. The advantage of developing and explaining the power ups means actually focusing on the development of these characters. If the idea is that they want to use Kuririn et al more, why have their major developments occur mostly off-screen? Seems rather contrary to the goal.

Fleshing out the concept of God ki would have allowed for it to even the playing field if they so desired. Make God ki less of a plot device and have the secondary characters devote time and effort toward gaining it. It's still got problems - it effectively means most of the casts previous development is obseleted - but throwing out the consistency also does that, in a much worse way.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55127: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:36:14 PM

"I don't like this, it is bad," and "I like this, you are just salty" are both equally useless as discussions. There is nothing wrong with someone asking if anyone had alternate ideas while they are complaining.

Edit: Thank you Saiga.

edited 1st Apr '17 11:39:37 PM by Jedi1113

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55128: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:37:47 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55129: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:39:05 PM

Saiga saying there's no salt when he's the saltiest one here.

Seriously though, the show has clearly dropped the pretense of Power Levels, so how about you guys do too? I find that watching the episode in a mindset of "I love Dragon Ball's characters, character writing, and fight choreography" works wonders for my enjoyment of the series. Really now, you get a wonderfully animated and choreographed episode with a ton of heartwarming moments, and all anyone can seem to do is whine about how the Power Levels aren't consistent. The Dragon Ball fandom is so shallow.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55130: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:41:39 PM

Wasn't Krillin's development shown though? We saw him reach that zen ki control state. The moves he showed todays are extensions of that. Goku should have murdered him regardless but still.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55131: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:42:45 PM

[up][up]So basically "the show has stopped trying to make sense, so stop caring about it"? If you can overlook it fine, but, calling people "salty" for not doing so is just...

Edited by LSBK on Dec 11th 2020 at 6:28:11 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55132: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:43:12 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55133: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:44:57 PM

[up]You were making monosyllabic comments with no capitalization or punctuation, the entirety of which were solely negative and harshly written. That screams 'salt' to me.

edited 1st Apr '17 11:45:44 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#55134: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:47:35 PM

Honestly, we shouldn't be bound by the same ways of thinking as were used in the old series when it comes to Super; this is clearly a different game altogether now. We must continue to grow and evolve past our old ways of thinking; go beyond our limitations, just as Goku does.

And here you'll see me trying to mix Dragon Ball with philosophy; I am so sorry if this sounds dumb as all hell.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#55135: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:48:28 PM

As Jedi said, DBS did actually show Krillin training and powering up quite some just 8 episodes ago. Sure he ain't god level (yet), but it does seem that forest training pushed his limits quite up there.

Not sure how powerful he is, but it wouldn't surprise me if he got around the Android's level.

Also, I like how Gohan got BTFO after knocking down Krillin the past couple of episodes. Really shows that an old dog can learn new, more powerful tricks. Can't wait to see what Gohan does next episode with Piccolo.

edited 1st Apr '17 11:49:51 PM by Rinsankajugin

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55136: Apr 1st 2017 at 11:48:49 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55137: Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:47:00 AM

You were being facetious? Whenever I noticed you doing that, I assumed it was the Delusions of Eloquence breaking down and you were too emotionally compromised to even attempt proper grammer. Sorry.

edited 2nd Apr '17 12:49:36 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#55138: Apr 2nd 2017 at 2:28:05 AM

Another thing i liked was the fact that they acknowledged that Goku has never met 17.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55139: Apr 2nd 2017 at 2:34:41 AM

He met him...in a dream.

Filler dream...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55140: Apr 2nd 2017 at 2:39:19 AM

I felt Krillin's performance this episode was very reminiscent of the Luffy/Usopp fight in One Piece. Despite clearly being the weaker fighter, Krillin managed to hold his own against base Gohan and base Goku through ingenuity and creative techniques. Both of the fights were also beautifully choreographed and animated, I wasn't kidding when I came in all ready to gush over how great this episode was; I sincerely loved it.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#55141: Apr 2nd 2017 at 3:00:09 AM

[up]

I thought the same and honestly thought Krillin looked really cool.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55142: Apr 2nd 2017 at 4:32:09 AM

[up]x5 No, I was on my phone.

As for the rest of that

Are you actually real?

That's hilarious.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55143: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:09:52 AM

No matter how I look at it Krillin was always going to be in the picks for this tournament. He's exactly the 10th strongest fighter on Earth after all. So given that, I honestly don't have a reaction to how "powered up" he gets. Indifference to it describes my state of thought on it.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#55144: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:12:54 AM

I felt Krillin's performance this episode was very reminiscent of the Luffy/Usopp fight in One Piece. Despite clearly being the weaker fighter, Krillin managed to hold his own against base Gohan and base Goku through ingenuity and creative techniques. Both of the fights were also beautifully choreographed and animated, I wasn't kidding when I came in all ready to gush over how great this episode was; I sincerely loved it.

Yeah, agreed. As a Krillin fan, I was grinning from ear to ear by the end.

All this kvetching about power levels doesn't really make sense to me, since it seemed like the show was playing up Krillin's Weak, but Skilled nature for the majority of the episode, by having him use interesting strategies and new techniques. The only questionable part was the Beam-O-War by the end, and even then, you could argue that Goku was holding back.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55145: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:23:04 AM

Dragon Ball also isn't One Piece, Gohan and Kuririn aren't anywhere near the same as Luffy and Usopp etc.

One series being able to use Weak, but Skilled to make the weak character shine does not mean any example of it is equally justified. And that's not even getting into how Luffy vs Usopp was incredibly short and ended with Luffy wiping the floor with Usopp once he ran out of stalling tactics.

When you look at how power levels actually worked previously, it's easy to see why the entire episode is questionable and 'weak but skilled' is a shallow, insufficient justication.

All the skill in the world wouldn't let a regular human defeat a manned tank head-on. The difference between Kuririn and Gohan is magnitudes greater than that.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#55146: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:25:45 AM

Ya know we really should have more competent female characters at this point.

Not in Dragonball, but Slayers, Jojo, [insert advertisement for series I like here], Yu Yu Hakusho, Flame of Recca, and Hunter x Hunter all have decent female characters. And I suppose if you want you can toss in One Piece and Fairy Tail.

It seems a lot like people complain about Goku and Vegeta doing everything right up

I assure you I am not guilty of this. I give Goku and Vegeta sh't for just about everything they do.

I'm actually ecstatic the others are here. Even if he lost the genetic lottery in terms of superpowers, seriously, every time he shows up he's doing something badass in the arc he appears in. He did what this franchise ultimately considers the "right thing" and lived his life in celibacy, training to be the best.

Every generation/story arc coming together on the same team: Roshi representing early Dragonball, Vegeta the Saiyan Saga, 17 and 18 the Android and Cell Sagas, and Buu obviously his own sag a- with Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo obviously having some overlap, and Goku of course being there for all of them.

It's like when Doctor Who/Power Rangers decide to have all of the Doctors/every team of Rangers show up and work together with the latest iteration. Even though later Doctors/teams should have better knowledge/more resources it's still fun as heck to see them all there.

edited 2nd Apr '17 5:34:20 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55147: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:32:02 AM

Ehhh... I don't know Slayers and Flame of Recca, but I'd rather kill myself than recommend those others as series with good female characters. Damsel-in-distress Hakusho, 7/8 parts sausage fest where women are totally useless Jojo, Hunter x Where the fuck even are the women, One Piece and Fairy Tail... it's like you wanted the extreme opposite of series with good women.

Tenshinhan sure was badass in the arc where the only thing he did was get knocked out by a pair of severed legs.

Also, best part of the episode: Kuririn's super new technique is a shittier version of Lavender's tactic when he fought Gohan and got wrecked for it (can't be seen, can't be ki sensed). Super can't even be consistent with its plot for a handful of episodes.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55148: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:41:02 AM

Well, Lavenda gave Gohan time to recover. Krillin didn't. Is the harsh sarcasm really necessary?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#55149: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:50:33 AM

Gohan really didn't have that much difficulty with the superior technique with poison which was worsening. It's really quite silly.

And yes, because the idea of Tenshinhan being a "badass" would pretty much render the word meaningless.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#55150: Apr 2nd 2017 at 5:52:03 AM

All the skill in the world wouldn't let a regular human defeat a manned tank head-on.

Tell that to Daryl Dixon.

edited 2nd Apr '17 5:52:28 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!

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