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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#54126: Mar 14th 2017 at 11:33:58 AM
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#54127: Mar 14th 2017 at 11:45:20 AM

GT is canon in the context of GT.

Just as the anime is canon in the context of the anime, the movies are canon in the context of the movies, Super is canon in the context of Super, Xenoverse is canon in the context of Xenoverse...

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#54128: Mar 14th 2017 at 12:04:33 PM

If canon is used in the sense of continuities (which isn't entirely accurate - if something is no longer currently accepted as part of the series' continuity, it is no longer canon, but is still in continuity with itself), the various ones are thus:

  • The current anime one: the DB/Z anime including filler and additions, but probably minus the movies, and now Super.
  • The current manga one: the DB/Z manga, and now the Super manga.
  • GT
  • The various movies are their own little pockets of continuity, though several of them reference each other.

edited 14th Mar '17 12:06:01 PM by KnownUnknown

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#54129: Mar 14th 2017 at 12:23:37 PM

The problem is that even though Super Saiyan 4 and Blue are supposed to be miles above everything else the shows don't do very good jobs of making them feel strong. There's very little change in impact as they just do the same moves all the other forms have.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#54130: Mar 14th 2017 at 12:37:09 PM

They allow the heroes to stand on even ground with the new villains though yeah its not much of a boost in some cases.

Hell Frieza's Golden mode was stronger than Goku's Blue while Goku killed Super 17 & Omega Shenron in his base form after running out of power though 18 helped a lot in the formers case.

At least 4 isn't just a regular Super Saiyan with blue hair dye though.

edited 14th Mar '17 12:37:39 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#54131: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:10:41 PM

Blue had been kinda underwhelming since the start when it was actually weaker than Freeza Golden form, and wasn't all that amazing ever since.

At least 4 was amazing when first introduced.

And if you look back at God (which was only good enough to kinda sorta keep up with not serious Beerus for a while) and 3 (which was only good enough to keep up with Buu's weaker forms) the last time a Super Sayian form was truly overwhelming was Super Sayian 2.

Fawriel Since: Jan, 2001
#54132: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:16:24 PM

Toriyama really wrote himself into a corner when Vegeta casually destroyed a planet like it was nothing right in his introduction and then set up Freeza as the most powerful alien being in the universe, only for the whole thing to become so popular that he would never be allowed to end the series until he dies.

It's so weird when they pretend like Whis actually has anything to critique about Goku's and Vegeta's technique or anything. Like. Dude. They're long past the point where they can work on their stance or their mentality or whatever. All they've been doing for the past decades is just run around and punch stuff until their Power Level(tm) goes up.

edited 14th Mar '17 1:19:48 PM by Fawriel

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#54133: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:21:42 PM

[up] Then again, it would be extremely ludicrous for Toei and Shonen Jump to leave this cash cow as Dragon Ball is the goose that lays the golden eggs.

edited 14th Mar '17 4:13:29 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#54134: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:23:27 PM

The series was never going to end with Namek.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#54135: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:27:01 PM

Then why does Android saga feels like it's written on a week to week basis with no bigger plan? tongue

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#54136: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:29:20 PM

I assume you're being sarcastic, since that's how Toriyama always writes.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#54137: Mar 14th 2017 at 1:30:12 PM

The editor kept telling him to change antagonists.

Though that kinda worked in all our favors as the Android Saga would never have been that epic if it was just Dr. Gero & 19.

The power creep did become a serious issue though.

edited 14th Mar '17 1:30:28 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#54138: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:33:24 PM

Toriyama is legendary for writing by the seat of his pants and the rumors going around that he had to rush chapters because he was too busy playing Dragon Quest.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#54139: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:33:36 PM

Then why does Android saga feels like it's written on a week to week basis with no bigger plan?

Because it kind of was. The editor thought Androids 19 and 20 looked stupid, and told Toriyama to write new villains. Then he thought 17 and 18 were underwhelming and not scary enough, so he told Toriyama to write new villains again.

Then we got Cell... which honestly worked out all right in the end.

And I do agree: 19 and 20 were pretty dumb. Sometimes Executive Meddling pushes things in a positive direction.

edited 14th Mar '17 2:34:57 PM by DarkHunter

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#54140: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:35:38 PM

@fawriel: Vegeta destroying a planet casually in the Saiyan saga was filler only (And even then, the Arlian world was very small) He had to charge up a Galic gun in the manga to be able to destroy earth.

Watch Symphogear
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#54141: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:36:42 PM

What's so dumb about a Fat Clown and an Old Geezer...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#54143: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:37:35 PM

I still wish Cell stayed in his first form or at least gained a new form similarly as monstrous.

The whole insect monster look was really cool.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#54144: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:39:44 PM

Does Cell-X not count?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#54145: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:40:39 PM

[up]x4

Because they both look like they belong in a circus.

As for 17 and 18, they both look like they shop at Hot Topic.

edited 14th Mar '17 2:40:55 PM by hardcorefakes

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#54146: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:43:26 PM

[up][up] Well that's from a canceled online game so not sure if that counts, heh. tongue

Still I saw & its pretty ugly. Some weird creepy centaur/spider mix & Cell had this perpetually grumpy old-man expression. Its just ugly & way too bulky.

edited 14th Mar '17 2:43:45 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#54147: Mar 14th 2017 at 2:53:25 PM

[up]x5 The question was still legit, despite the names used...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#54148: Mar 14th 2017 at 3:06:07 PM

I like to think that the conversation with the editor went like this:

Toriyama: Here are my villains.
Editor: Lame!
Toriyama: Well how about these new ones?
Editor: Lamer!
Toriyama: Well fuck you I'm going with a bug monster!

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#54149: Mar 14th 2017 at 3:44:51 PM

I mean, Cell-X came back as a Super Mode for Perfect Cell in Super Dragon Ball Heroes. Thinking back, Frieza's the only one of the Dark Dragon Ball villains who didn't get a new form; Cell got Cell-X, Pure Buu got Demon God Pure Buu, and even Turles is apparently getting a new form if the end of the CGI trailer is anything to go by. They could have at least given Frieza a Super Form like Cooler's, or done something like Super Golden Frieza.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#54150: Mar 14th 2017 at 3:46:01 PM

Well, Freeza is the only one who got a new form in the anime, so they might thought that was enough.


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