Does it qualify as Rooting for the Empire if the antagonists you're rooting for aren't evil in any way, shape, and form?
Goku can't walk into the tournament having curbstomped every challenger he came across beforehand, unless the big twist is going to be that he gets his ass surprise handed to him once it starts. We've yet to have a threat level established to hype us up.
Plus there wouldn't be much of a point of having someone else call Goku out on his shit and then get beaten two episodes in a row. And Toppo winning (or at least fighting a draw) here sets up Jiren better.
It also gives us less reason to see Jiren as a threat, because his leader who got the big dramatic entrance to give us our first impression of universe ended up being weak enough to be trounced by Goku already. It also gives us less reason to be engaged in Goku's excitement about the tournament (since he's so far seen nothing that can challenge him) or worried about his chances (ditto). We'd be walking into a plot with only nominal stakes.
Objectively, we know Jiren is going to be a threat because he's in the opening. But it generates more hype and set-up for him if Toppo is stronger than (or at least equal to) Goku, and for Goku to not be able to pull out the win, only for the bomb to be dropped that Jiren is even stronger.
In contrast, they don't really need any more reason for Toppo and Jiren to be anti-Goku. Last episode did a great job setting that up already.
edited 12th Mar '17 1:15:36 AM by KnownUnknown
Jiren could be potentially stronger. It be like Toppo is the strongest since he's the oldest but he considers Jiren a prodigy in way Goku did to Gohan so Toppo believes with enough training Jiren could surpass.
I could see Jiren as being the more emotional type & feels more anger at Goku so he purposely makes things personal or something forces a personal conflict between the two.
I also see at the tournament something happens to Toppo so all the hope falls on Jiren & in a perspective flip while battling Goku he's the one who goes above & beyond his limits facing an impossible threat which in this case be Goku as Jiren carries the hope of the entire universe on his shoulders. It is pretty much a rule in shonen that anyone who fights for something bigger then himself then they will be empowered far greater than someone who's fighting for himself.
So by that logic Goku's screwed cause while its not like he doesn't care about his world, its pretty clear he's fighting for himself at this point.
edited 12th Mar '17 1:25:37 AM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."If Toppo beats Goku, then Jiren isn't going to see him as much of a threat, that's why the antipathy won't work so much. While it's true Goku winning again makes it look like he's having it too easy, Toppo feels a lot more like Bergamo in that he's an opponent with no chance of beating Goku (narrative wise). I see the fight being inconclusive at best.
Jiren being stronger than someone who beats Goku is going to make it silly if Goku beats him 40-80 hours later in-universe.
Of the universes competing, where do you think they stack in the average mortal ranking level? I can't imagine Universe 10 to be that high since Gowasu thought the Barabians would be a good choice to test Zamasu instead of something actually advanced and peaceful. Though maybe he's even dumber than we think. Universe 11 meanwhile seems the closest to beating the average, given its strongest fighters and god do things For Great Justice.
Universes 1, 5, 8 and 12 must be pretty damn utopian to be better than a universe who's most powerful fighters and God of Destruction fights for justice and eliminates evil. On another note, this suggests that for any genuinely evil God of Destruction to exist and thus rank higher than Beerus or Sidra they'd have to firmly be Lawful Evil.
Given what recently came out on the website, I think the Kaioshin of each Universe are more responsible for giving it a higher Mortal Level than the Hakaioshin. Furthermore, the information given may give insight into how Mortal Level works.
U1 Kaioshin Anato: U1 has the highest Mortal Level, but, suspiciously, no information is given about Anato besides having a gentle smile.
U5 Kaioshin Oguma: a gentle god who values a balance of knowledge and power, which suggests that both are a contributing factor in Mortal Level.
U8 Kaioshin Iru: loves making plans, and gets fired up when the plans come together, implying a proactive and creative Kaioshin is useful for creating a high Mortal Level.
U12 Kaioshin Agu: says virtuous things. Although his universe is already developed, he aspires to take it even higher, which shows that a driven and perfectionist Kaioshin is also good for Mortal Level.
Compare that to the Kaioshin we know of who aren't among the top 4:
U9 Kaioshin Rou is a selfish, arrogant, jackass.
U7 Kaioshin Shin is an inexperienced newbie, who was shoved into the position of Kaioshin way before he was ready for the job.
U4 Kaioshin Kuru is also apparently a haughty and prideful jerk.
U3 Kaioshin Ea is slightly influenced by mortals who like machines, showing that a good Kaioshin should try to remain neutral on preference towards mortals, since U3 isn't among the top 4 universes.
U11 Kaioshin Kai also show preference to a certain type of mortals: heroic ones. This implies that even having a strong sense of justice isn't enough to bring your Mortal Level up, and morality isn't much of a factor in Mortal Level, if at all.
From the above information, I extrapolate that, if you are a Kaioshin and you want your universe to have a high Mortal Level, you need to be proactive, impartial, creative, constantly driving to improve your mortals' productivity and growth, always looking to maximize potential, willing to explore all avenues of improvement, and you need to present yourself as experienced and kind.
Basically, you need to run your Universe like a business.
The amount of shitposting that came from a line made by Funimation is amazing.
Is Ea supposed to be Toriyama? Toriyama loves to draw machines.
I bet Anato is an asshole and that gentle smile is just for show.
edited 13th Mar '17 9:38:32 AM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.Masako X puts his own two cents in on a debate we've all been having.
I can't help but think he's giving Bulma a bit too much credit. Yes, she's very smart, but she's also really, really dumb at times as well. I don't think she could just fashion up a fake dragon ball just like that. The thing with Oolong might work.
But if she did manage to get that far, I can believe that things would end with Monster Carrot the way he's predicting. There's really no way around that if both Yamcha and Goku aren't around.
He seemed way too gleeful about Yamcha just buggering off back into the desert though. I'm almost starting to think they just don't like him and it's not that he's fun to mock.
As for Pilaf versus Red...he does know Pilaf only has Shuu and Mai right? How exactly would they be at war for years? I mean unless Pilaf becoming King of the world nets him a huge army all of a sudden (which I suppose is possible).
Now his idea of Capsule Corp being recruited into Frieza's army is sometingI'm not so sure about. They are more than likely to be wiped out. That being said, I think I recall reading somewhere that there was one particular bit of tech that the Planet Trade gained from their acquisitions so it's not impossible...at least I don't think it is.
You know, this is why I've been convinced that the only way to create a world where Frieza doesn't mess things up is for Frieza to just never exist somehow.
One Strip! One Strip!Without Goku, Bulma would die, very quickly.
She's a mechanical genius, but she's incredibly reckless and dumb, even more so at that age.
edited 13th Mar '17 2:31:29 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariThat's more or less the assumption we've all made.
He seems to be giving her the benefit of the doubt that she would still get pretty far, but it's highly possibly she'd get herself killed as early as Bear Bandit.
That being said, if she did manage to get farther, I pretty much agree that she'd never get past Monster Carrot, because for someone like her, his power is way too hax.
One Strip! One Strip!But we've already agreed she'd never get to...
Oh right! They actually came after her and Goku at one point didn't they? I know Shuu and Mai ran into Goku pretty early in that first arc for some reason, but I can't remember why.
So yeah, she'd lose the balls pretty early.
One Strip! One Strip!Why would she run into a T.Rex before not meeting Goku if she didn't when she did meet him?
One Strip! One Strip!

That's what people want to be the case...
But who knows? Maybe he is stronger...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.