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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5276: Feb 23rd 2014 at 1:57:50 PM

[up]

Ah right. West Kaioushin I mean. And yeah, she likely is the strongest female, with Zangya being number two. We can only guess at how powerful the former is however.

I actually once considered the idea of Babidi taking control of the Bojack Gang and pitting them against the Kaioushins, so I was curious as to where the latter group would stand with the power-up.

The levels of the former group make me think that, while not necessarily stronger, they might still put up a good fight in the right circumstances. After all, even if one dude has a higher Powerlevel, if you are close enough, you can still put up a good fight.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5277: Feb 23rd 2014 at 4:42:01 PM

We DO know that she's much stronger than East Kaioshin, who was far stronger than Piccolo, so she should still be above Zangya.

I don't think the timelines match up for that.

That's assuming they ARE close enough. The power of the other four Kaioshin is a mystery, other than that they're all a lot stronger than East Kaioshin. If you go by a certain ambiguous and shaky scene in the manga, then Bojack alone can stomp all of them. If you go by other implications, or just the anime version of their battles that were only vaguely referenced in the manga, then there'd be no fight because South Kaioshin would just rip them all to shreds.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5278: Feb 23rd 2014 at 6:04:52 PM

Bah. Power Levels once again make things too complicated for my liking.

But I guess that's how it is.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5279: Feb 23rd 2014 at 6:24:09 PM

How is it too complicated? Either way is pretty straightforward.

Based on the sword scene: South Kaioshin, the strongest Kaioshin, is decently weaker than SS Gohan, who was curb-stomped by Bojack.*

Based on Mr. Buu's power, the boost absorbing him gave to Pure Buu, and the anime: South Kaioshin, the strongest Kaioshin, is not extremely far off from someone who beat SS-3 Goku, while Bojack, by far the strongest in the gang, got one-shotted by someone weaker than SS-2 Goku.

Things do get a little bit more complicated when remembering official multipliers and stuff, but those merely emphasize the size of the power disparity, and aren't actually needed here.

*Though that could have been SS-2 Gohan. It's a whole big thing in the fandom.

edited 23rd Feb '14 6:29:03 PM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5280: Feb 23rd 2014 at 6:49:02 PM

[up]

Eh, I think that lately I just feel like the characters never should have gone past Planet buster.

I still love Dragonball as a whole, but I wonder if they just got too strong, even though I also wouldn't want to screw with anything that came afterwards.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5281: Feb 23rd 2014 at 6:59:53 PM

Wait, what? What's the problem with them going past planet buster? Going by that calculation from Pure Buu's Vanishing Ball I posted a while back, as well as certain guidebook statements and anime feats, DB top-tiers would be at mid to small star level. They're still poop compared to the top-tiers of popular comics. Like Galactus.

edited 23rd Feb '14 7:00:27 PM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5282: Feb 23rd 2014 at 7:24:32 PM

True.

One of my favourite moments is Vegito playing Soccer with Super Buu's planet wrecking energy ball. I don't know, maybe it's because it feels different when Marvel has a planet buster then when Anime does it.

I can't put my finger on why.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5283: Feb 23rd 2014 at 7:39:06 PM

[up][up] To be fair, Superman and Galactus are complete shit when faced with the power of a lot of mecha anime; case in point, the second strongest form of the Demonbane was destroying entire universes left and right as easily as Beerus beats up people.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#5284: Feb 23rd 2014 at 7:42:15 PM

Xenogears and Xenosaga stomp all.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5285: Feb 23rd 2014 at 7:52:35 PM

I wasn't talking about Superman. Galactus is in a different league, unless you're talking about Superman Prime or something.

Yeah, like I said. DB is relatively conservative by only having its best characters be able to destroy stars or solar systems.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#5286: Feb 23rd 2014 at 8:47:12 PM

I completely ignore non-Bo G DBZ movies (and characters introduced in them) since they're all unambiguously awful. I used to say the only thing people should watch outside the anime are the tv specials, but that SSJ Bardok thing ruined that.

AFAIC, the second strongest female is 18.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5287: Feb 23rd 2014 at 8:48:30 PM

Second after who? I guess she'd be the strongest going exclusively by the manga, but West Kaioshin from the anime and Zangya from Movie 9 need little more than a flick to make her explode.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5288: Feb 23rd 2014 at 8:49:49 PM

[up][up]All of them? I wouldn't go that far. Most are shit but a few of the earlier ones can be entertaining.

The two specials are also really good.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#5289: Feb 23rd 2014 at 8:52:04 PM

The Broly movie is pretty badass...>_>

My various fanfics.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5290: Feb 23rd 2014 at 8:54:00 PM

For some reason I don't remember anything about that movie aside from the ending where Goku uses the Deus Ex Machina punch.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5291: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:03:40 PM

I remember Dub Broly asking if Cease fire is the same as a Coffin.

I get the feeling Broly equates a lot of things to death, what with being Bug fuck crazy and all.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#5292: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:05:52 PM

Quantity, not quality.

Galactus might be able to destroy entire planets, but Spider-Man can't. Reed Richards can't, not without building some serious firepower tech. Captain America can't. Star-Lord can't. Most if not all of its protagonist figures cannot fly around the universe blowing up planets by the dozen, and most of its villains can't either. Those characters who can aren't even villains more often then not, acting as more a part of the setting than a major player in the events. Even Galactus is more often a plot device than a character.

The equivalent for DBZ would be if the Supreme Kai - and ONLY the Supreme Kai - could blow up a planet, but either could not or would not involve himself in the fight with Buu directly.

edited 23rd Feb '14 9:07:12 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#5293: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:19:24 PM

I never watched Sailor Moon or read the manga but it does tickle my funny bone that it is stronger than DBZ by a significant margin. I dunno why.

edited 23rd Feb '14 9:19:43 PM by Nikkolas

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5294: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:33:20 PM

I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Movie 8. It starts out interesting, with a spooky atmosphere, and there actually being a plot and a set-up, but then turns into a boring Broly wankfest that lasts for two and a half movies. Even the creator of the character wanks him.

Broly himself is an awful character. He has a shitty laughable Narm backstory, an uninteresting design, ridiculous overexposure, boring fights, and just WREAKS of Villain Sue: "HE'S DUH RAEL LEGENDAIRY SUPER DUPER MEGA SAYING, AND HE'S SUPAH POWURFUL AND STRONGAH THAN EVRY 1 EVN WHEN NOT USIN FUL POWAH AND HE HAS A SUPER EXTRAH TRANSFORMAMAACITAION THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS EVEN DOH HE'S ALREADY BETTAH THAN EVERYONE WIDOUT IT AND HE BEATS UP AL OF DA GOOD GUYS AND TANKS AVERY DING THEY DOO AND SCREAMS AND PUNCHES THANGS AND WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!".

I just... don't like him. I probably wouldn't hate him nearly as much if he wasn't so over hyped, with three movies, millions of insufferable fanboys, and freaking Super Saiyan 3 in the video games. Why does he get so much dick sucking!? Why him? All he did was beat up a bunch of pre-Cell Games Super Saiyans (+Piccolo), and early Buu Saga Super Saiyans. Cell could have easily done the same. And in the end, he's defeated by a weakened Super Saiyan 2 teen Gohan and Super Saiyan Goten. Just straight up overpowered in a beam struggle.

Why doesn't any other movie villain get so much wank? Like Janemba? He beat up Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta in a creative and fun way. That's way more than Broly's ever done. Why can't Janemba fight evenly with Vegetto in the intros? Why can't Janemba get a new even more super form that it makes no sense for him to have? Why can't Janemba show up in a game about the saiyan saga? Why can't Janemba get the legion of annoying fanboys clamoring about how he can beat Buuhan, Super Vegetto, Godku, Beers, and Whis at the same time with one finger?

Favorite of the movies is undoubtedly Movie 12. Movie 1 is a close second.

edited 23rd Feb '14 9:35:11 PM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5295: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:44:47 PM

[up]

Meh. I don't care about the Broly Wank (though I agree he got hyped a bit too much, and probably should have stayed dead after his first movie).

I do think it's funny that he has the worst reason to be so fucking crazy ever: because Goku kept him up all night when they were both babies.

It's like if Doctor Doom hated Reed Richards for scaring his face when that wasn't even Reeds....

.....Ok. New example.

It's like if Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta because King Vegeta ate the last cookie or something.

It's the kind of silly motivation that you'd get from old school Dragon Ball, with dudes wanting to wish themselves taller and all that shit.evil grin

And then he totally fucks you up anyway.

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5296: Feb 23rd 2014 at 10:37:16 PM

Actually, I'd like to amend a previous statement: Janemba DOES get a lot of undeserved dick sucking, as you'll sometimes find people saying he can beat Super Buu and folks above Super Buu, but it's still nowhere near as bad as Broly. And at least Janemba has a nice design, interesting powers, and beat up stronger characters. He's actually my favorite movie villain. Not to mention that he's got one of the only good movie fights:

I count that and this as the same fight.

This fight is actually interesting. Goku has the advantage in hand to hand combat, while Janemba has a slight to moderate advantage in pure power and an advantage in special abilities.

I also like that Janemba shows off a wide range of techniques in this battle. Portals, phasing, mouth blasts, sword beams, stretchy arms...

edited 23rd Feb '14 11:21:58 PM by sockpuppet1

RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#5297: Feb 23rd 2014 at 11:01:29 PM

[up]At like the 5:50 mark... did he just fall into a Gate from Chrono Trigger?

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5298: Feb 24th 2014 at 12:51:10 AM

So here's a question for ya'll... or at least those who actually think this: where did all of these "only Goku can do anything in Z" complaints come from? He does everything in the pre-Raditz story, but from what I see, he doesn't do all that much after it. He defeats 3-4 henchmen and plays a big part in the defeat of every main villain. But Vegeta and Gohan both did more, scoring more victories against minor villains* and also being heavily involved in the defeat of every main villain (except for Vegeta in Vegeta's case, obviously). They were arguably more important to defeating the main villains than Goku (e.g. Gohan finished off Vegeta, Gohan killed Cell, Gohan supplied the majority of the Genki-Dama's power). And Piccolo and Trunks aren't that far off either: for example, Trunks was the one who actually beat Freeza, not Goku.

*Gohan defeated seven Cell Juniors and a Freeza soldier and also Cell, Vegeta defeated Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, Jeice and 19, and arguably Guldo and Ginyu as well (oh, and Appule and Pui Pui, but no one cares about them). Goku just defeated Nappa, Recoome, Burter, and and Yakon. That's 9 victories for Gohan, 5-9 for Vegeta (plus the few he had as a villain), and 3-4 for Goku. The guys Vegeta and Gohan beat were also relatively (relative to the main villain and rest of the cast I mean, in addition to just in general) more powerful and plot relevant than the ones Goku beat.

edited 24th Feb '14 12:53:54 AM by sockpuppet1

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5299: Feb 24th 2014 at 7:28:17 AM

[up] It honestly stems from the Vegeta and Piccolo fanboys. In their opinion, Vegeta or Piccolo should have killed the main villains because... fuck Goku that's why. It also is probably a result of people taking all Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z movies into account as well as GT, which in all honestly, is not nicknamed "Goku Time" among the fanbase for nothing, especially if you actually watch the show like I did.

Honestly, as far as defeating main villains, and by "defeat" I mean either kill and beat so badly they can't fight again, Goku's record isn't even the best in the show:

Staff Officer Black: Commander Red - 1

Mercenary Tao: General Blue - 1

Nappa: Piccolo - 1

Goku: General/Staff Officer Black, Demon King Piccolo, Nappa, Recoome, Burter, Yakon, Majin Boo - 7

Vegeta: Nappa, Appule, Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, Jeice, Guldo, Recoome, Burter, Android 19, Pui Pui - 11

Gohan: Cell - 1

Piccolo: Raditz - 1

Trunks: Frieza, King Cold, Planet Trade Organisation Soldiers, Present Time Cell, Alternate Time Cell, Alternate Time Androids 17 & 18 - 7

Frieza: Vegeta - 1

Android 17: Dr Gero - 1

Cell: Android 16, Android 17, Future Trunks, Alternate Timeline Trunks, Goku, King Kai - 6

Majin Boo - Babidi, Dabura, The entire population of earth (with the exception of Mr Satan, Dende and Bee the dog) and every single Z-Fighter (with the exception of Goku and Vegeta) - Billions

Even while Goku did pretty much everything in the story Post Saiyan Arc, he still got his ass kicked a lot by the likes of Mercenary Tao, Demon King Piccolo (Twice!), Yajirobe, The Red Ribbon Androids, Master Roshi and Tien. The only people that Goku has every defeated on his own are Demon King Piccolo, Nappa, Recoome, Burter and Yakon. Demon King Piccolo is the only main villain, the rest are mooks. So I don't where the whole "only Goku can do anything in Z" came from and for the record, Goku is my favorite character. And as far as saving the world, Goku has ever only really done it twice on his own and that was against Demon King Piccolo and the Red Ribbon Army. It was Oolong who actually prevented Emperor Pilaf from taking over the world by quickly wishing for girl's underwear just before Pilaf was about to wish for world domination, it was a team effort that defeated Vegeta, Trunks killed Frieza when he arrived on earth, Gohan killed Cell with a major assist from Vegeta and killing Majin Boo was another team effort.

edited 24th Feb '14 11:40:15 AM by FireShadow

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5300: Feb 24th 2014 at 7:33:43 AM

Yeah. It is easy to forget that among Z villains, Goku only really beats Buu, and even that was a massive team effort of everyone on the planet.

One that wasn't even their best plan.

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