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RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#52826: Feb 23rd 2017 at 5:25:51 PM

I'm wondering if Cell ever had the potential for a Heel–Face Turn, or at least a Heel Neutral Turn. Pre Perfect form where he considers what to do with his life he's no worse than Vegeta was at evil. If my arguments on the Complete Monster page are any indication he has free will to decide not to follow Dr Gero's programming, at least when he's become Perfect and the voice in his head telling him to be perfect for twenty years isn't in effect.

I feel Toriyama decided to keep him irredeemable because he felt it convenient. He did the "evil creation isn't that evil" with 17 and 18, already played out the Heel–Face Turn a bunch and probably wanted to keep the contrast between other characters in evilness he did with Freeza. Also a Cell who's a good guy or at least stops being antagonistic would be a Story-Breaker Power because of his insane potential

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#52827: Feb 23rd 2017 at 5:37:53 PM

Thing is, how would you actually do it?

The problem is that Cell is a sore loser, it's a non-zero possibility that, should he lose to Goku instead of Gohan, he might accept Goku's offer to put some time into training and then come back for a rematch, but there's a larger possibility that he'll just go 'fuck you and your planet' and self destruct instead.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#52828: Feb 23rd 2017 at 5:46:04 PM

It says something that the archetypal "Cell turns good" fanfic (I forget the name) simply has Gohan punch Cell in the head really hard, much like baby Goku.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52829: Feb 23rd 2017 at 5:49:04 PM

I mean its not objectively impossible. I'd say the worst thing he's done is his absorbing of people.

Still I mean Vegeta was a grade-A unsympathetic asshole & a sore loser too. I'm sure if he had the power he would have blown up the Earth in spite too. Take a page out of how Vegeta and Buu became good, have him mellow out or give him some form of a morality pet.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#52830: Feb 23rd 2017 at 6:04:15 PM

Just don't make his morality pet some bland self insert woman.

Because yes, those exist.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#52831: Feb 23rd 2017 at 6:05:04 PM

I mean, the only one I've read had Frieza as his morality pet...by around the last third of the fic.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#52832: Feb 23rd 2017 at 6:08:54 PM

Boo didn't mellow out, he was a clear molded good half that split...renamed to support the change.

edited 23rd Feb '17 6:09:19 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#52833: Feb 23rd 2017 at 6:50:57 PM

Vados english voice is great!

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#52834: Feb 23rd 2017 at 7:22:32 PM

The Latinamerican dub of DBS is confirmed! great!

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#52835: Feb 23rd 2017 at 7:27:44 PM

Of course it is.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#52836: Feb 23rd 2017 at 7:37:14 PM

I think it'd be easy to give Cell a Morality Pet. He'd get 16's bird-watching habit. I know it won't make sense but allow me to dream of Cell the birdkeeper.

The legend has returned.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#52837: Feb 23rd 2017 at 7:49:17 PM

@IANCE

You seem to be a writer who has seen the worse of the worse of fanfiction, are there other traps that most DBZ fanficcers tend use in order to redeem most of the villains?

"Mai waifu."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#52838: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:04:08 PM

Isn't memory loss the most common?

Or just simply stop being evil...lemons.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52839: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:06:50 PM

[up] x 6 Did they announce her casting, post a video or something? Also Champa too?

[up][up][up] He could also develop a bond with a Cell Jr. It be absurd to see Cell endure the trials of fatherhood & he'd be a decent dad anyway, after all he has Goku & Piccolo's genes to balance him out. tongue

edited 23rd Feb '17 8:07:09 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#52840: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:10:00 PM

@GAP

I've seen shit that would turn Ernie Hudson white.

Most of it is Gohan-centered Highschool antics, when it comes to DBZ.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#52841: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:12:59 PM

I believe I saw a fic where Beerus rapes the reader once. I didn't actually read it but I saw it listed on AO 3.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#52842: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:17:55 PM

[up][up]But what about the redemption?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52843: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:26:05 PM

Regarding Mary Sue fanfiction, I've come across two in Dragon Ball that really stand out, by virtue of having literally all of the Mary Sue tropes (well, the ones that apply to villain's Morality Pet Sue's anyway), while also being genuinely well-written. The characters are terrible and out-of-character, the descriptions of clothing scenes go on for paragraphs, and the Mary Sue is the most generic self-insert ever, but damnit, the writing itself is actually fantastic.

The first of the two I've read is a prequel fanfiction starring Freeza's wife and Kuriza's mother, and it is bad. Freeza's all sensitive and caring around her, but not too much, he still needs to have his bad-boy appeal. The only redeeming qualities this had was the writing, and one scene where Freeza fires a Death Beam clean through the head of an ambassador from another planet in a sensitive meeting, just for questioning him.

The second is this really bizarre story where Super Buu succeeds in absorbing Vegetto, and then heads back to a little house that holds the only Human left alive: Mary Sue (or whatever her real name is), whom he deliberately avoided with his Human Genocide attack because apparently he liked her face. I noped out of this one early, right around the time Super Buu started caressing her with his head tentacle the next morning.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#52844: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:33:08 PM

You're describing them in a terrible light, but they apparently have decent writing?

Decent writing if they weren't DBZ-ing characters?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52845: Feb 23rd 2017 at 8:41:09 PM

Yeah, from what I remember, the writing quality, in and of itself, was actually really good. It's just the content that makes me want to barf.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#52846: Feb 23rd 2017 at 9:09:12 PM

Goku was always kind of a dick. Even as a kid, I agreed with Babidi when he pointed out how much damage Goku did to the nearby city by turning into a Super Saiyan 3. Babidi justifiably called out Goku on being a dick.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#52847: Feb 23rd 2017 at 9:10:42 PM

That was only in the anime. In the manga he throw Buu in the water. Even then, that's a weird thing to say, when Babidi obviously wasn't concerned with Goku's callousness, he was concerned with him possibly being a match for Buu.

edited 23rd Feb '17 9:11:36 PM by LSBK

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#52848: Feb 23rd 2017 at 9:15:14 PM

Thing is, how would you actually do it? The problem is that Cell is a sore loser

There's actually a fanfic out there called Honor Trip where Cell becomes a good guy, goes back to the future with Trunks and fights the later version of himself that Trunks initially would have fought and killed.

     

The reason for all of this was that Gohan kicked Cell really f'cking hard in the skull during the impromptu torture session.

Brain damage.

I thought that was ingenious when I first read it. The fic was good for about two chapters - Vegeta and Trunks are adamant about Cell's sudden Heel–Face Turn being utter bullsh't, but Goku, being who he is, senses that Cell really has turned a new leaf and talks Gohan from killing Cell outright. Then they go and use Shenron and wish so that Cell can never be "evil again".

Then things got weird and the Z-Fighters actually took Cell to court to stand trial for all the people he killed (all those people being suddenly resurrected creating an even greater ethical dilemma) - Vegeta even gets on the stand and says his piece - and all of this was well and good, but then the author forgot how to write the characters and had Goku give an extremely nuanced speech.

Up until that point it was a neat examination of a bad guy suddenly having their conscience switched on.

edited 23rd Feb '17 9:24:21 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#52849: Feb 23rd 2017 at 9:19:02 PM

I did mention the fic near the top of this page.

When I first read it (a couple months ago), I felt the whole thing came off as if every character in Dragon Ball Z just bought a thesaurus.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52850: Feb 23rd 2017 at 9:20:19 PM

Knowing Chichi she might have given a thesaurus to Goku at one point.

He never read it though most likely but still a funny thought that is. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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