TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52626: Feb 21st 2017 at 9:55:39 AM

Well, it is a gag, and apparently Toriyama's picky with those.

UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#52627: Feb 21st 2017 at 10:37:40 AM

Speaking of Rumushi, the only way Zamasu could've been able to defeat, or even restrain, his Universe's God of Destruction is because the time ring allows for greater time manipulation shenanigans than thought possible.

Yes, I'm calling shenanigans on Zamasu bypassing his G.o.D.

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#52628: Feb 21st 2017 at 11:11:48 AM

Oh man. They actually finally just decided to kick Zenkai to the curb? Neat. more training power ups instead, please.

I'd be all for some new, mystical Space Cola showing up and giving all of the humans a power boost but, honestly, I don't think they needed to kill the Zenkai concept to do that.

It's because the regenerated cells bond with his mind, allowing him further control of Future Goku's power

No, I get that Black can't control 100 percent of Goku's power - even if that doesn't make sense to me - but in Chapter 20, in the scan I read, he cites Zenkais as being the key to unlocking Goku's strength. Except that shouldn't work at all according to what Trunks is saying. In which case...

the actual Goku and Vegeta have already gotten all they can get out of Zenkai boosts.

The problem is still that Black should be equal to Goku and/or Vegeta, not above them. His body can't progress from Zenkais anymore than Goku's can, once you reach Goku's level apparently. How is he drawing out "more power" from a body that cannot "gain more power" the way he's claiming to have drawn out that power?

Unless Supreme Kais just get a "+1 F'ck You" bonus to every stat.

It was mentioned in chapter 19 that by default Black should be stronger since his Goku body was from further into the future)

Black should have a nerfed version of Goku's body, but a nerfed version that still went to the tournament.

Heck, Vegeta trains while they go back to the past and comes back visibly stronger than before. The notion that they can no longer improve is silly.

In the anime Vegeta makes some kind of point to Goku about how training in the HTC isn't doing anything for them anymore, and for all intents and purposes he's right. I'm not sure why Vegeta comes out of the HTC stronger if Zenkais don't work. What did he do in the HTC that gives him the advantage?

That's exactly why they were phased out; the power jumps in Namek because of Freeza and Zenkai were ridiculous. And it all culminated in having to give Goku Super Saiyan to finally put him down.

They could have just A) made the bad guys that much stronger so that Zenkai's are less effective or B) made Zenkai's less effective due to age.

edited 21st Feb '17 11:46:26 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52629: Feb 21st 2017 at 11:34:01 AM

The problem is still that Black should be equal to Goku and/or Vegeta, not above them. His body can't progress from Zenkais anymore than Goku's can, once you reach Goku's level apparently. How is he drawing out "more power" from a body that cannot "gain more power" the way he's claiming to have drawn out that power?

Unless Supreme Kais just get a "+1 F'ck You" bonus to every stat.

Pretty Much. Zamasu's Godly soul allows for more profitable Zenkai when used in a Saiyan body.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#52630: Feb 21st 2017 at 11:40:15 AM

So it's the godly "f'ck you +1 to every stat" bonus then?

I figured. The anime pretty much did the same thing but didn't have Trunks point out that Goku and Vegeta weren't getting stronger through Zenkais.

They go to the future, Black beats them up, they come back, Black beats them up again, they come back a third time and Black's Zenkais suddenly stop working in mid-battle; Vegeta beats him up, and then fusion.

edited 21st Feb '17 11:44:25 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52631: Feb 21st 2017 at 11:41:59 AM

That's pretty much this arc in a nutshell right?

Repeated attempts to kill Black that always end in failure till the last one where they pull out all the stops correct?

edited 21st Feb '17 11:42:11 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#52632: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:10:03 PM

No, even that last one was a failure. Even the last ditch effort was a Pyrrhic Victory.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#52633: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:11:04 PM

They could have just A) made the bad guys that much stronger so that Zenkai's are less effective or B) made Zenkai's less effective due to age.

That doesn't make much more sense than this chapter, especially because Saiyans age slower so they can fight longer.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#52634: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:31:23 PM

Speaking of Rumushi, the only way Zamasu could've been able to defeat, or even restrain, his Universe's God of Destruction is because the time ring allows for greater time manipulation shenanigans than thought possible.

Pretty sure he died when Zamasu killed Gowasu.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#52635: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:49:46 PM

Speaking of Rumushi, the only way Zamasu could've been able to defeat, or even restrain, his Universe's God of Destruction is because the time ring allows for greater time manipulation shenanigans than thought possible.

If you mean to say that Rumushi's (sp?) life should have been tied to Zamasu's, that isn't true. The Gods of Destruction's lives are tied to the Kaioshins'. Zamasu was not actually a Kaioshin yet. He was still an apprentice. His life wouldn't have been tied to the God of Destruction's.

Remember that Kaioshin is a title, not the name of their race (which I think is shinjin... "Heavenly People" or somesuch).

edited 21st Feb '17 1:51:56 PM by DarkHunter

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#52636: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:51:48 PM

Onto something different, been watching Super on Toonami, and I actually like dickish Beerus, maybe the voice actor just pulls it off really well. Regardless of your feelings on the infamous Vegeta power up scene, the build up to the slap, the actual slap, and the powering up itself took way too long. It was obvious padding.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 12th 2024 at 10:09:00 AM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52637: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:52:46 PM

It felt way too melodramatic for my liking, but honestly, I have to agree, dickish Beerus is kind of funny. Who is Beerus's voice actor, by the way? I really love how he voices the character.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#52638: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:54:27 PM

Beerus' dub actor is Jason Douglas, who's been in quite a few other shows.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52639: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:55:51 PM

[up]x7 Oh right, things ended in a complete failure.

Poor, poor Future Trunks, he got barely anything out of that arc. Nearly everything good was taken away from him, his mother, his species, his world leaving only Mai of all things. Even worse in the manga since Black & Zamasu have completely exterminated all of humanity meaning Future Trunks even if Black & Zamasu lose he still loses too. Its a lose, lose situation. The only win is Black & Zamasu dying.

English Beerus has a nice voice. It just feels right in my ears, same with Whis too.

edited 21st Feb '17 1:57:13 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52640: Feb 21st 2017 at 1:59:27 PM

Yeah, I greatly prefer the dub's voice for Whis over the Japanese.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#52641: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:08:20 PM

Whis geeking out over sushi is the best.

I have a message from another time...
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#52642: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:11:46 PM

That doesn't make much more sense than this chapter, especially because Saiyans age slower so they can fight longer.

They age slower but their bodies can become weaker. I can see the Zenkais becoming less effective as they age.

Or, if the biology on that doesn't add up, simply make the enemies a crap ton stronger. Buu was already the eldritch bubble gum man of the universe. Beerus is the god of destruction. No mortal methods could possibly match their strength. Goku could drop a throwaway line like, "We've gotten stronger from that battle, but still.. it's not enough. I think we'd both have to almost die like 50 times each just to stand a chance."

Whis geeking out over sushi is the best.

I'm kind of bummed that Goku's obsession with food is so downplayed next to Beerus and Whis. I figure that could be the start of an actual friendship between Beerus and Goku - the strongest fighters in this universe seem to be obsessed with some kind of food. Have Goku actually sit down and argue with Beerus about food.

edited 21st Feb '17 2:35:22 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#52643: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:16:50 PM

Downplayed...Karrot doesn't really eat much these days.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#52644: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:17:35 PM

Beerus and Whis are food connoisseurs. Goku has never really seemed preoccupied with food beyond whether it tastes half way decent and there is a lot of it.

edited 21st Feb '17 2:18:01 PM by LSBK

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#52645: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:21:44 PM

Connoisseurs. Yeah that works.

Still. Goku eating small countries worth of food used to be a gag.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#52646: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:25:35 PM

I wonder if he's getting less hungry then.

If he really is becoming a God then that means the loss of mortal functions such as hunger.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#52647: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:33:19 PM

Beerus and Whis are gourmands. Champa just like to stuff his face.

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#52648: Feb 21st 2017 at 2:56:00 PM

@Slim coder

Actually, Cabba was really strong and was Vegeta's equal in base form. His draw back was not knowing Super Saiyan was a thing.

Cabba has probably mastered his Super Saiyan form since then and has gotten stronger.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#52649: Feb 21st 2017 at 3:02:16 PM

[up][up] I'd say they're gourmets. Champa is a gourmand.

I have a message from another time...
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52650: Feb 21st 2017 at 3:37:08 PM

Ian Sinclair's performance of both Whis and Brook is one of my favorite examples of truly perfect casting.


Total posts: 130,800
Top