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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5201: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:20:58 PM

It is complete BS, welcome to BoG. Now, this might just be the subs at the Film Festival I went to, but during the first (failed) attempt at Super Saiyan God, Piccolo and Beers say you can't beat a God by just raising your battle power, no matter how much.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5202: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:22:09 PM

Probably just faulty subs.

I hope.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5203: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:23:42 PM

The Kanzenshuu synopsis at least says that a God's power is not expressed in battle power, which makes Goku realize he can't win that way.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:26:43 PM by Saiga

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5204: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:27:04 PM

That would mean that, under our noses, Kami and later Piccolo could've totally defeated every threat to Earth alone. And Kaioshin could've kicked the shit out of Gohan-Buu and Super Vegetto. Even fucking Dende would be able to stomp every other character.

Plus, we saw normal ki can overwhelm godly ki if there's enough of it, with raged Vegeta hurting Massively Super Suppressed Beers, so the comment just can't mean what it seems to.

Speaking of which, Popo, Karin, and Kibito aren't gods, just deities, right? Does Piccolo count as a deity?

What do you mean 3 gods? We've seen at least eight (Kami, North Kaio, Emna, Dende, Old Kai, East Kaioshin, Dai Kaioshin, and South Kaioshin). More (such as West Kaio, Dai Kaio, North Kaioshin, West Kaioshin, and maybe even Freeza) counting the anime.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:36:55 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5205: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:32:32 PM

Godly ki itself contradicts what we see in the series anyway, and I don't see how the scene makes sense otherwise because no-one says that he's not strong or whatever just that he's not a God so he can't win. The scene plays out like you must be a God to be their equal, and that's probably why Godly ki is even a thing.

Vegeta hurting Beers is suspect but I don't remember if he actually did hurt him.

I have no idea about Piccolo. He did get some of God's abilities post merge but I guess I'd just call him a mortal with some Godly abilities. South Kaio was in the manga as well.

Well, I just meant the ones with major roles. Kaio and God have official battle powers, East Kaioshin doesn't.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:35:28 PM by Saiga

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5206: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:35:04 PM

Nah, he did hurt MSS Beers, there was blood and everything.

Are you speaking of Kami's 220 from Weekly Jump? Because that number has never been reprinted and contradicts what's shown and stated in the series itself, so don't bother with it. But still, Kami and Kaioshin, even if they don't have explicit power levels like Kaio (I think his 3,500 was reprinted in the Daiz), are still measured by battle powers; as in, they're described as being above or below characters that do have battle powers or Vegeta describes by stating that they have a high battle power, like being in between King Piccolo and 23rd Budokai Piccolo for Kami, and in between Piccolo and SS/SS-2 Gohan for East Kaioshin.

Oh. Well. Nine then.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:42:40 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5207: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:37:24 PM

Then I guess it must be something like "you can't reach that level of strength without Godly ki" for the failed God scene to make any sense. I don't think the dialogue matches that though.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5208: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:45:57 PM

Just add it to the pile then.

What about notable demons, like King Piccolo, Dabra, and Majin Buu? Or EU demons like Garlic Jr, Slug, and Janemba? Would they be deities? If not, would Super Buu, Evil Buu, Good Buu, and Fat Buu be deities due to being fusions of Majin Buu and the two Kaioshin?

edited 20th Feb '14 5:47:15 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5209: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:47:39 PM

I think that you need an actual position to be a deity/role, no matter if you fuse/absorb with people. Pure Boo wouldn't be a deity I don't think.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:47:53 PM by Saiga

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5210: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:53:22 PM

But King Piccolo is the evil half of God, Dabra is the ruler of the Demon Realm and above the actual gods of the realm in authority and power, and Janemba is a demon incarnation of all of Hell's evil. Shouldn't they count in some way? Majin Buu was just a berserker, but the fact that he's called a demon and killed or fused with all but one of the universe's highest gods should give him some significant position other than being just some super strong mortal.

EDIT: Heck, going by the anime, Freeza would count as a god, right? In filler, Kaio said that planet Vegeta was destroyed by its god- with the destroyer later revealed to be Freeza- and Beers was apparently employing him to destroy it. So maybe Beers just gave him the position of Vegeta's Kami for like, a day, as a joke, and both of them had a good laugh about it?

edited 20th Feb '14 5:59:34 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5211: Feb 20th 2014 at 5:58:01 PM

Well, I guess demons could be a type of deity. I wonder if guidebooks have ever gone into that. Janemba I just see as a clusterfuck that can't be categorized as much other than himself.

Wasn't the stuff that implied Freeza actually worked for Beers mostly a mistranslation, with a more faithful translation being that Beers let others cause destruction in his place? As in, Freeza destroyed Vegeta for his own reasons and that just meant less work for Beers so he didn't involve himself.

edited 20th Feb '14 6:00:12 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5212: Feb 20th 2014 at 6:30:45 PM

Actually I think Beerus flat out told Frieza to blow up Planet Vegeta because he was to lazy to do it himself, and really, not even Frieza is arrogant enough to contest him.

Also, the DB wiki seems to state that only Whis and Beerus were capable of using godly ki, since those two were the only people that Goku was never able to sense, which in and of itself works since the Kais and Supreme Kais aren't so much gods as they are an entire race that gets born from the fruit of a tree, and they only get their positions through promotion and whether or not one of them has died of old age or something.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5213: Feb 20th 2014 at 6:46:26 PM

Don't trust the DB wiki. They were explicitly called gods (so was Kami, which literally means "God") and no one but Piccolo could sense Kibito or Kaioshin. There's also been tons of people in DB's history that Goku couldn't sense. Two other examples were at that very tournament.

Beers isn't "really" a god either, he's implied to just be some powerful mortal who got the job plus a nice power boost. The Kaioshin are actually born as gods and hold an actual position in the godly hierarchy.

edited 20th Feb '14 6:50:56 PM by sockpuppet1

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5214: Feb 20th 2014 at 6:59:11 PM

To get off from this topic, how big are Great Apes suppose to be again, since I just saw a screenshot of Golden Great Ape Goku lifting a mountaintop above his head, and the picture made it look like the trees around him barely came up to his ankles, which is massive compared to Great Ape Vegeta who was only big enough for Goku to be the size of a stress toy for him.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5215: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:02:35 PM

Size has never been consistent for anything in this series.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#5216: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:21:02 PM

Maybe Super Saiyan Apes are just bigger.

The size thing only bugged me with normal Vegeta who really did shoot up over the course of the series. like a vegetable. Or a weed.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5217: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:22:54 PM

Krillin keeps switching from being about a head shorter than Goku to below his knees. Sometimes between panels. Daimao varies between his official 8'2 height and being as big as a small house. They're just two examples.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5218: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:30:31 PM

What about Super Saiyan God Vegetto? If Goku had a power level that was 70% of Beerus then Vegetto would probably be stronger than him.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5219: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:43:00 PM

I will answer that with a question; how many Saiyans would be left after Vegetto's creation?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#5221: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:49:23 PM

Give Goku or Vegeta Super Saiyan God, then have them fuse. Jury's out whether there's still "six Saiyans" since two people have been physically and spiritually bonded together.

Goku took a lot more hits than Bills did in the second round. Doesn't seem like Vegito would fare much better - though Bills did claim to be out of power at the end, didn't he? He hardly looked concerned about it, and Goku was almost out of power when Bills launched his final attack - if not for that last burst of strength, Goku was cooked.

edited 20th Feb '14 7:51:34 PM by FOFD

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#5222: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:49:54 PM

Tarble. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#5223: Feb 20th 2014 at 7:51:27 PM

[up]That's actually what I meant when I said six. There's no reason they couldn't use him if Beerus ever came back and they needed to give Vegetto Super Saiyan God.


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