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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51926: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:08:24 PM

Last I checked, Toriyama actually did put all of this all to rest himself ages ago: whether Tien is human / an Earthling, who is stronger between himself and Krillin, etc. And with Krillin's increased prominence in Super, it's unlikely that that's going to be flipped around now of all times.

The primary reason people think Tien is stronger is because we don't see him do anything for long periods of time, but when he does it's relatively significant. Whereas we see Krillin do stuff constantly, but a lot of it is being Overshadowed by Awesome. So people internalized the idea that while Tien isn't as strong as the Saiyans, he's still great while Krillin is weak, and started creating reasons on their own for why that's justified.

Then there's also the fillers. I usually have no problem whatsoever with filler (often the opposite, in fact), but I agree that shit like having the supporting cast defeat a bunch of people who curbstomped the protagonists willy nilly is ridiculous and only causes problems - it just doesn't line up with the way the characters are being written.

Either way, there isn't much reason to assume that Tien is stronger than Krillin, even given the vagueness of the human characters' exact power in relation to each other as the series goes on. Most of the justifications for it are vague themselves, and not given in the story.

edited 13th Feb '17 2:11:54 PM by KnownUnknown

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#51927: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:17:55 PM

Heh, I'd be lying if I didn't think Tien is stronger than Krillen after using a little something called TRI-BEAM!!!!!! against a particularly douchy green genetic abomination.

As well as surviving Super Buu's Extinction attack & going up against the fucking monster. Sure he couldn't do shit but its the thought that counts.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51928: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:21:45 PM

Not really sure how dodging an attack counts as a feat of strength. Buu was specifically targeting anyone, he just let loose under the (correct) assumption that he'd kill basically everyone left.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#51929: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:25:52 PM

Wasn't there a measure of guidance to the attack? I thought that the reason Mister Satan survived was because some subconscious influence from Mister Buu caused the attack to swerve away from him.

I have a message from another time...
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51930: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:26:48 PM

I mean, Chiaotzu was also able to dodge Buu's blasts.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51931: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:29:37 PM

[up][up]That doesn't mean he specifically had them homing in on everyone else though.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51932: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:35:34 PM

I think another thing to consider with Tien is that he's more willing to jump into the fray. When shit goes down Tien leaps into action, while Krillin is like oh shit! oh shit! oh shit! We're fucked.

He's not wrong, but since he's more likely to only join a fight when he's got no choice, or when he knows he can win, Krillin comes off as weaker.

I imagine Namek gave him a painful lesson on just how out of his league he is, whereas Tien is just Fuck that shit! I'm gonna do something! despite knowing he won't make much of a difference.

That's at least how I see it, because for years, this was the reason I assumed Tien was stronger than Krillin until I became aware of Word of God.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#51933: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:42:00 PM

Its just sad how out of their league Krillen & Tien became. Especially how Tien's blast did zilch towards Super Buu. Seriously not even a scratch.

Like I've been watching some Buu Sage videos & I saw Bulma chiding Krillen & the rest of Z-Fighters for letting Gotenks fight & die against Buu. Cause damn she's right, fuck its depressing how far these men have fallen. They used to be the Earth's greatest warriors & now they have degraded so much that there final hope to fight the bad-guy is children, fucking children.

Its a Goddamn disgrace.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51934: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:53:14 PM

Falling behind on the power scale isn't the same as naturally getting weaker...

It's not necessarily their fault a 7 and 8 year old could surpass them just by being Super Saiyans.

"Used to be Earth's greatest warriors" is kinda pushing their value in those battles just a bit.

edited 13th Feb '17 2:55:13 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51935: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:55:39 PM

[up]

This true.

It's the fault of God....aka Toribot.tongue

But he wanted to phase them out...then utterly back-pedalled.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#51936: Feb 13th 2017 at 2:59:15 PM

Regarding Krillin not training with Kaiou: That's irrelevant. While Tenshinhan did spend about eight months with Kaiou, assuming Ten's gains are similar to Goku's, the gains Krillin got from the Elder are far, far greater.

In the span of about six months, Goku went from 412 to over 8,000. That's about a 1850% increase. Krilin went from about 1,200 to over 75,000 from the Guru boost. That's a 6150% increase. Krillin probably could have done nothing but lounge on a couch eating junk food from then until now while Ten training 24/7 and he'd probably not catch up.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51937: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:01:54 PM

Adding to that, we have no reason to think that Tien's training would be as bountiful as Goku's, and even before having his potential unleashed, the gap between Tien and Krillin was pretty small. I think they were 1890 and 1770, respectively? Krillin had been catching up to him, anyway.

edited 13th Feb '17 3:04:05 PM by LSBK

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#51938: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:06:05 PM

1,770 to 1,830.

Well, Krillin's percentage increase from the Guru boost isn't that large but it gets the point across.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#51939: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:06:33 PM

And yet Krillin's the one who had fallen so far behind that bullets could hurt him....

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51940: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:07:21 PM

[up][up]That doesn't mean he specifically had them homing in on everyone else though.

...it does?

It hit literally every other person on the planet. Underground, in a house, walking their dog. It wasn't even blowing up cities of buildings in some grand array, we specifically see each blast punch through a person.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#51941: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:09:16 PM

[up][up] Fuck Toei's filler and it's complete lack of continuity and understanding.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51942: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:11:32 PM

[up][up]No we don't. He fired a lot more off than he had to, under the assumption that one of them was bound to hit someone. They were flying everywhere and lot of them just plowed into buildings and the ground. There was no specific "this blast kills this person" going on.

Fat Buu subtly influencing him to not hit Mr. Satan doesn't mean that Super Buu was specifically guiding the blasts.

edited 13th Feb '17 3:14:49 PM by LSBK

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51943: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:17:57 PM

If he was just blind-firing then there are any number of humans who could have survived by being underground or underwater. He would've damaged buildings/vaporized random objects. We don't see any of that damage.

We see it specifically blast through people's chests instead of just disintegrating them or blasting them apart. [down]He was targeting people.

That he spent time walking around the Lookout suggests he was actually counting how many blasts he needed to fire. If he was just going to fire blasts randomly then he didn't need to waste time counting.

edited 13th Feb '17 3:22:02 PM by Soble

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#51944: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:18:33 PM

However, Buu did get every single human being without just nunking every city. The blasts went after people.

He targetted every single human being alive, even Mr. Satan. Just because not every shot lands exactly on target doesn't mean that it isn't still insanely impressive, even if the population of the Dragon Ball World seems much smaller than that of ours.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51945: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:20:51 PM

I didn't say it wasn't impressive, and I'm not sure what you think piercing people instead of vaporizing them proves.

They were flying everywhere. He didn't need to specifically lock on to every individual to have an idea of how many people where alive and how many blasts to shot to make sure they were all dead.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51946: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:21:38 PM

Actually, I'm near positive that exactly what he did.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51947: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:23:28 PM

It doesn't really matter either way. The main point was Tien dodging them isn't some feat about his strength or something to indicate that he's stronger than Krillin. For one, we have no indication Krillin couldn't do the same, and, two, Chiaotzu also did it.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#51948: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:23:37 PM

I mean, I don't know how you interpret this otherwise. Maybe the manga looked different. To me it seems he bothered walking around and counting, and it hit everyone in the exact same manner, so that suggests he was guiding the blasts. There's no reason to assume he can't because we've sees characters doing that.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51949: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:24:43 PM

Anyone with them reflexes could dodge the bullets...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51950: Feb 13th 2017 at 3:26:04 PM

I took him getting a rough estimation of how many people there were, where they were concentrated, and firing a shit ton more than he needed to be sure.


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