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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51101: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:49:16 AM

Tournament good.

Survival tense.

"Zen-Oh" cute...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51102: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:49:21 AM

[up][up][up]

Bring It.

[up][up]

Then I guess you and Shlugo are now allies in evil. Pat yourself on the back.

edited 5th Feb '17 9:49:41 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#51103: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:51:04 AM

My username literally includes the word "psycho" and the name of the worst Doctor Who companion in existence, I couldn't be more evil if I burned down an orphanage.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51104: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:52:58 AM

After everything in the anime version of the Future Trunks Saga, I'm no longer surprised as Toei's characterization of Goku.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51105: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:56:56 AM

Is it just Toei's this time?

We need to see how the manga handles it. If we get some of the same arguments, then we can conclude that this is Toriyama's idea.

I will agree that Toei flanderized him pretty bad in the Future Trunks arc. He should be raked over the coals for forgetting the tags, and never forgiven.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51106: Feb 5th 2017 at 9:58:45 AM

A few mean-spirited and inconsiderate comments and it just gets people all uppity.

He's totally fine...just rude fine.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#51107: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:35:57 AM

He left Vegeta alive, even when Vegeta made it clear that he'll come back and kill them all once he's done healing just so he could fight him again. He did the same with Piccolo(well, that also had the issue of Kami dying along with him, but it's pretty likely that Goku would have done it even if that wasn't the case) He gave Cell a Senzu Bean.

You have a point on the first one. Pretty sure he let Piccolo live because he could tell he wasn't as bad as his father. Giving Cell a senzu wasn't to satisfy himself, it was because of a warped sense of fairness and wrongly thinking that Gohan would want a "good" fight.

Poor decisions in all, but not all about satiating himself.

edited 5th Feb '17 11:09:14 AM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#51108: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:45:02 AM

Also to be even fairer on the Cell thing, Goku had 100% confidence on Gohan's victory even accounting for Cell having held back in their fight.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#51109: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:50:19 AM

It should be noted I'm still excited for the tournament, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ignore Goku's hand in all of this.

I doubt it's going to actually amount to anything substantial though.

After everything in the anime version of the Future Trunks Saga, I'm no longer surprised as Toei's characterization of Goku.

But it's an arc coined by Toriyama.

edited 5th Feb '17 10:51:13 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#51110: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:53:19 AM

[up]

That's what I said.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51111: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:55:23 AM

With Piccolo there's also the fact that he didn't want Kami to die. Cell is an interesting case, as iirc he knew he couldn't beat Cell and knew Gohan could, but utterly failed to realize that Gohan personality-wise is not like him and wouldn't just be able to handle that situation on sheer tension alone - so his failing there is not mentally preparing him for it.

In any case, Vegeta was the big thing that made me a little more comfortable with this as well. If not for the existence of Freeza - who Goku didn't know about at the time - that may very well have had terrible consequences. But this is still the first time Goku's outright made a major, arc-central bad situation happen himself rather than thwarting a bad situation but not completely taking care of it so he could get some future excitement (at least, iirc), so it feels different.

I'm excited for the tournament. I'm excited to see everyone fight all sorts of interesting opponents. I'm excited to see how Goku's going to react when the shoe drops, and how the others react to it as well. I'm excited to see how he might make up for his mistake. I'm excited to see whether or not they're going to be able to save the other universes in trouble, and how they're going to deal with Zeno. It's all very exciting.

I at least am not bringing up Goku's shortcomings simply for the sake of condemning him. His mistakes make good plot. It's all very exciting.

edited 5th Feb '17 10:58:17 AM by KnownUnknown

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#51112: Feb 5th 2017 at 10:58:56 AM

Thing is, I'm already expecting the solution to this being to just ask Zeno not to do it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Kosjurake The Wildest of Ronins from Tokyo LOCCENT Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
The Wildest of Ronins
#51113: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:01:45 AM

[up]That's one of the possible resolutions yes.

The other two are Zeno actually goes through with it and now there's only Universe 7.

Or and this is the one I really want to happen, is since there's two Zeno's now, someone tricks the two into destroying each other, and then poof no more Zenos. The multiverse is now free of ever having to deal with that asshole ever again.

Click Click Boom Boom
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#51114: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:04:11 AM

Then that person turns out to be the Grand Priest or whatever he's called and he takes over as the new Zenou and he's super evil and the heroes of the twelve universes has to band together to fight against him.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#51115: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:08:39 AM

[up][up]I actually like Zeno.

My two bits: wild mass guessZeno was initially planning on just lying about destroying any universe that lost the tournament, after which he forgot about it since he's a small child, but then decides to actually destroy losing universes for real. The reason is because now there are two Zenos. This is important because while one Zeno is capable of destroying the entire multiverse in a blink of an eye, recreating the multiverse, or even a single universe, back to its original form is far more tricky, and thus easier to just make one from scratch. However, there are now two Zeno, meaning double the cosmic, reality warping power, and thus the two Zeno plan on using their combined power to reverse the destruction they had committed during the tournament.wild mass guess

[up]I think fans have been predicting that outcome so hard that Toriyama may actually throw us a curveball and make someone that isn't either the Grand Priest or the two Zeno the true Big Bad. My money's on any one of the Zeno's direct attendents. Their eyes look REAL shifty......

edited 5th Feb '17 11:11:17 AM by UdtheImp

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#51116: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:17:11 AM

Remember, in the DBZ anime Toei tried to make Goku look like a hero, which Toriyama didn't agree with. With Toriyama at the helm of the DBS anime, Goku's personality is aligned with what Toriyama intended: A blood knight who cares for his friends and family, but is striving a for a good fight first and foremost.

Goku got bored and wanted to fight someone strong, and got his wish as Beerus first appeared. Then Frieza came back. Then Champa and Vados declaired a tournament. Then Goku wanted to fight Zamasu before he went all crazy. And now he wants to do this tournament because he's bored again. I have a feeling Toriyama is doing this on purpose to not only show that Goku is a flawed individual, but also to maybe (and hopefully) show what happens when Goku's flaws go too far.

In fact, this is sort of reflected in the opening's lyrics:

Limit Break X Survivor make a lot of sense if you view the song's lyrics through Goku's POV.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#51117: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:18:55 AM

So I just watched the episode. I really dislike the direction that they are have taken with Goku here.

edited 5th Feb '17 11:22:23 AM by Lionheart0

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51118: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:23:08 AM

If even one universe gets destroyed, Goku will be responsible for more deaths than any other Saiyan in the series. Including the dead ones.

Combined.

Seriously, Goku, what the hell?

edited 5th Feb '17 11:31:29 AM by Hobgoblin

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#51119: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:32:18 AM

Finally, a hero responsible for more lives lost than saved.

It's a dream yet come true.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#51120: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:33:18 AM

Hey, he'd be living up to his saiyan heritage at least.

EDIT: Huh, the opening does make a lot of sense from Goku's POV. He wants to continuously break past his limits, and not get complacent or bored. The problem is that he doesn't really consider the effects this might have on people.

It's kind of the logical conclusion and opposite of how Gohan functions.

edited 5th Feb '17 11:36:18 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#51121: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:34:20 AM

If even one universe gets destroyed, Goku will be responsible for more deaths than literally every villain in the series except Zamasu, and even then, he has partial responsibility for those since he forgot the tags.

In other words, Goku's kill count will be the highest kill count in Dragon Ball history, and will catapult him to the top rankings of most innocents killed accidentally.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#51122: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:36:42 AM

Are there people in other works of fiction who have killed entire multiverses by accident?

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#51123: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:37:54 AM

I like that there are some actual stakes to the tournament. So yeah, good job Goku!

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#51124: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:38:41 AM

Goku, responsible for lost lives in the multiverse, he like it or not.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#51125: Feb 5th 2017 at 11:39:01 AM

So what happens when those other universes are destroyed? Oh well, tough luck?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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