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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5076: Feb 17th 2014 at 10:51:48 AM

@unnoun (5058): no. 18 can't train to get stronger. She doesn't even have ki in the sense that the other fighters do. She just has built-in weaponry. You can't work-out to make weapons stronger. There's no confirmation they even donated energy, they just raised their hands. Them being able to give energy really contradicts how their cybernetics were stated to work back when they debuted.

Gohan wouldn't of cared, in all likelihood. And even if he would have, there were several points where Vegeta was stronger than anyone and could just smash 18 to pieces. But he doesn't, because she's such a weakling to him that he doesn't think it'd be worth it.

@Fireshadow (5056): nah, present 18 was also smug as shit, talking crap about all of the Z-fighters and how they were weaklings compared to her. Cell just broke her smug streak by showing up and being way stronger than her.

@Fireshadow (5061): fucking YES! Finally, the best arc in Dragon Ball will get the Kai treatment.

@Cruherrx (5066): Chi Chi isn't the breadwinner for her family. Her dad is just really, really rich.

Also, Gohan was a scholar, Bulma's father was a super scientist just like her, Mr. Satan was a successful businessman next to being a professional fighter, etc.

Krillin and 18 would be set for life with Satan's money. Seems he and Bulma just have everyone live off of them. Fucking moochers. Oh, and the Ox-King.

@Robbie: okay, correction to make: Chi Chi is the strongest woman in the world. Videl is a relatively ordinary human, and isn't even close to Chi Chi, who has a power rivaling Roshi's. 18 would be the strongest if her power was hers, but it's not. That's like saying anybody who happens to have their finger on the nuclear button is the strongest person in the world. She can't be the strongest if she just has some particularly powerful weapons built-in. Cyborg, not human. Even if you stretch that a little more to be "strongest female in the series", 18 still wouldn't be close to the top spot, it'd be Zangya or West Kaioshin.

Chi Chi, as far as feats go, got to the finals of the Budokai easily (back when super humans were still the norm), and dispatched a couple soldiers in the Slug movie. By statements, Roshi states she's a dangerous and powerful master and the guidebooks give her a power level of 130 (Roshi's is 139). Videl can still be killed by bullets.

edited 17th Feb '14 10:53:29 AM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5077: Feb 17th 2014 at 10:54:39 AM

Gohan would have cared because of Krillin.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5078: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:03:32 AM

Krillin's the guy who's partly responsible for his dad's death. 18 is in the same boat and also wiped out 99.999% of humanity in an alternate timeline where no one was around to check her. Why would he give a shit?

edited 17th Feb '14 11:05:42 AM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5079: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:16:21 AM

See, you're thinking like you, and not like Gohan.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:16:31 AM by unnoun

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5080: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:16:48 AM

I just don't see why he would care. There's no indication that he would.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5081: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:18:02 AM

Because he doesn't want Vegeta to kill Krillin? Because Krillin and he are friends, for better or worse? Because Gohan isn't prone to pragmatism at the expense of kindness?

Because he's Goku's son, and Goku is nothing if not forgiving to people that try to kill him?

Because alternate timelines and unexplored possibilities shouldn't change the present?

edited 17th Feb '14 11:22:27 AM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5082: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:29:36 AM

Well ok then. Chi-chi is the strongest human in the world who's not enhanced by Cybernetics or the like.

I assumed Videl was stronger because she can fly, and still actively trains. That may not be correct.

And I won't get into the whole Gohan wouldn't care thing (don't agree with that at all) but I already theorized that after Goku died, Vegeta didn't have much drive to do anything at all (though I admit to getting that idea from the Bojack movie, which is probably not canon, although Bojack doesn't contradict anything either).

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5083: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:30:34 AM

[up][up]Wait, when did this become about Vegeta killing Krillin? I thought this was about Vegeta beating up 18. Krillin is a non-factor, he can just KO Krillin with a finger flick then kick 18's face in.

That's ignoring the fact that, for a decent portion of the time skip, Vegeta was the strongest being in the universe, so Gohan couldn't have stopped him even if he wanted to.

[up] Movie 9 does contradict a few things actually. It's on a similar tier to Movies 6 and 1, where it can work if you ignore a couple minor inconsistencies.

Chi Chi is the strongest human woman, Krillin's the strongest overall (or Uub, if you count him).

Vegeta said he would never fight again but pretty much abandoned that the next day, and then spent 7 years training.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:33:56 AM by sockpuppet1

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5084: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:30:38 AM

Or how about because Gohan is pure of heart like his father, if his capacity of riding the Nimbus is anything to go by.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that Superman vs. Goku would just lead to a draw, if for no other reason than the two teaming up against a common foe that will leave the two as sparring buddies and allies?

[up][up] The thing with Vegeta not wanting to fight anymore was also in the anime, since after everyone left for Dende's Lookout after Cell's death, he stayed behind while stating he would never fight again, since his only reason for fighting at that point was so that he could pay Goku back for defeating him, which he can't do since Goku is dead.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:34:53 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5085: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:32:21 AM

"Pure of heart" doesn't seem to mean anything in this series. Goku is declared pure of heart while being a total asshole.

It wouldn't last long enough to become a draw.

[up] Wait, what? Goku never defeated him. Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe did.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:39:06 AM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5086: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:34:50 AM

[up][up]

Probably.

Though Death Battle always has to have a winner via death.

I almost forgot the thing about the Androids training: There's no evidence that they can train to get stronger, except for 18 learning the Destructo-disk(which she could have learned from Krillin), but there's no evidence that they can't.

Toriyama probably didn't think about it. This is the guy who created Cell after all.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:39:00 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5087: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:37:30 AM

Uh, yeah there is. They don't have ki, which is what you train. They just have built-in weapons. You can't train those to get stronger.

Toriyama's forgetfulness is one of the most exaggerated things in the fandom. He forgot about three hair details: 18's hair color, when Vegeta had a mustache, and how long Super Saiyan 3's hair is. Forget about three minor aspects of someone's hair, and suddenly the fandom labels you as senile.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:38:25 AM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5088: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:38:42 AM

Why couldn't anyone sense 19 and 20? They were absorbing Ki. The Ki wasn't theirs, but it was inside their systems.

And I don't think disabling Krillin would be that easy for Vegeta. Krillin would probably fight to the death.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:40:33 AM by unnoun

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5089: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:40:08 AM

[up][up][up] That's what I don't get, would Superman and Goku actually be trying to kill each other, because I really think they wouldn't unless the other was a confirmed threat or had killed someone they cared about, which I just think would end before it actually began once something like Kid Buu absorbing Darkseid happened, which would lead to the two teaming up, if not right out fusing, to stop Majin Darkseid.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:40:22 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5090: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:40:14 AM

[up][up]Their energy eaters probably converted the life energy of others into mechanical energy. Otherwise, being machines, they wouldn't be able to use it.

Or maybe they can, they just never tried it after they started absorbing energy because they thought it wouldn't work. All of the stuff about sensing those two comes before they absorbs energy.

Are you kidding? The series has shown us that you can literally non-lethally KO someone by flicking them if you're strong enough. Vegeta could do that to Krillin in his base form, using a small percentage of his base form's power.

[up] It wouldn't last that long because Superman would non-lethally KO (manga) Goku with a poke.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:43:10 AM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5091: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:41:21 AM

[up][up][up][up]

18 is still human enough to have a purely biological child with Krillin.

How do we know she has no Ki? Yes, Gero installed devices that let them simulate the Ki levels of the Z warriors, but how do we know she can't train to become stronger conventionally as well?

Again, I'm not denying that it's probably impossible, but with Word of God saying so, how can we assume anything one way or another?

edited 17th Feb '14 11:41:41 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5092: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:42:45 AM

Because Piccolo and everyone else stated that the androids have no ki to sense. Even if they did, their natural human ki would simply never be up to par with their cybernetic enhancements or even the other strong humans like Krillin, so it'd be completely pointless.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:43:30 AM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5093: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:45:46 AM

So if Scouters detect Ki, would using a Scouter to read an Android give you a reading of 5 or 0?

EndlessSea LEGENDARY GALE from oh no you don't Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LEGENDARY GALE
#5094: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:46:20 AM

I always figured they couldn't be sensed because their bodies had too much robotics in them, and they were just using the same energy blasts as everyone else rather than built-in weapons that just happened to have exactly the same effects as normal DBZ attacks.

but HOW?
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5095: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:48:52 AM

[up][up] Since Goku and co could sense normal humans but not them, probably zero.

[up] But them not having ki like the other characters, and their power coming entirely from their cybernetics, is repeatedly stated.

And for the most part they don't use 'normal DBZ attacks'. They use little ki bullets like Vegeta often spams, aaaaaaannd... well that's pretty much it, until 18 uses the Kienzan. They don't appear to be able to amplify their energy by concentrating it into one blast like everyone else, and mostly stick to punches and kicks.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:50:01 AM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5096: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:49:49 AM

Also 18 learned the Destructo Disk. Um. I think her training with her husband makes more sense than going to Bulma and having a brand new energy weapon module fitted.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5097: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:50:05 AM

Why they never asked Bulma to build something that could sense the electrical impulses coming off of the androids' bodies, I will never know.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:50:51 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#5098: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:51:05 AM

[up]x9 That's sorta the crux of the video series. A majority of the characters that show up on Death Battle (Lion-O, He-Man, Superman, Goku, Batman, Spiderman, Rainbow Dash, Harry Potter, Yoshi, Peach, Zelda, Pikachu) would prefer to end their conflicts in non-violent ways, but it's just sort of accepted that on Death Battle, they're going to... fight to the death.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:51:33 AM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#5099: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:51:10 AM

[up][up][up]Her weapons can be used to generate energy attacks in certain ways. She generates a Kienzan just as a way to utilize the weapons. She can't actually do that with her own ki, or use energy attacks that the majority of the cast is shown using, like giant planet busting energy beams and spheres.

[up][up] No time. When they learned the androids couldn't be sensed, they were already involved in a protracted battle.

edited 17th Feb '14 11:52:54 AM by sockpuppet1

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#5100: Feb 17th 2014 at 11:51:23 AM

[up][up]would've made the arc less dramatic?

edited 17th Feb '14 11:51:38 AM by alekos23


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