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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4926: Feb 12th 2014 at 12:41:18 AM

Yeah, pretty much.

Another thing I don't like about Vegeta is all the Character Shilling he gets. He's constantly called a 'fighting genius' even though skill-wise after the Namek arc all he does is either fail miserably or copy Goku. This gets annoying sometimes.

Perfect example: the 19 fight, where he was credited by Piccolo for his bizarre and incomprehensible plan to beat 19 and 20. As far as I could tell, it went like this:

See 19 draining Goku's energy. Rush in, kick 19 away, turn SS. Start beating up 19 only to get grabbed by him and drained of most of your energy. Reveal that you intended to do this to "confirm" that the androids steal energy (even though he should already know that, and has nothing to gain from confirming it and everything to lose). Rip off 19's arms. Destroy 19 with an incredibly wasteful energy attack that does little other than look flashy instead of using physical attacks, draining what bit of energy you have left, leaving you a sitting duck to 20. Then turn to 20, revert to base, and say you're going to kick his ass, even though with that reversion you're now so weak that he can literally kill you with a look. Hope that he doesn't just scan you with his scouter and realize that he can stomp you now.

He was right about the last point, but that doesn't make him a "fighting genius" like Piccolo was prattling on about, it just makes Gero an even bigger moron than he is. Then again, Piccolo probably shouldn't be taken seriously on this matter, considering what his plan to save Goku from 19 was. For him, Vegeta's 'plan' really was genius. tongue

edited 12th Feb '14 1:03:26 AM by sockpuppet1

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#4927: Feb 12th 2014 at 1:24:26 AM

I couldn't find a Dr Slump thread, so this is the next best thing. tongue

Arale is playable in J-Stars!

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4928: Feb 12th 2014 at 1:38:01 AM

"That Vegeta... actually factored a way to save Goku into his plan to save Goku! Who else but the most brilliant of masterminds could think of such a plan?! AMAZING!!!111" - Piccolo, The Smart Guy.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4929: Feb 12th 2014 at 1:51:31 AM

Piccolo: "What a brilliant plan! He let his energy get taken for no reason, lost nearly all of his power, wasted what little he had left, and picked a fight with someone who could kill him in one hit! It's a good thing that 20 doesn't remember that he has a scouter. What a fighting genius. Only a true master like him could beat a guy way weaker than him and lose most of his strength in the process. This was much better than my plan of lying on the ground here."

(what the fuck was his plan anyway? I can't tell which one of them is a greater tactical genius here, I need help)

I bet Vegeta didn't even let himself get drained intentionally. He just got grabbed and tried to save face at the last second and pretend that he had an idea of what the hell he was doing.

edited 12th Feb '14 1:53:38 AM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4930: Feb 12th 2014 at 1:54:49 AM

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Vegeta doesn't claim that he let that happen (could be wrong, don't know the original dialogue). I believe that comes entirely from Piccolo, who could just be making shit up.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4931: Feb 12th 2014 at 2:17:37 AM

He says something like "ah I see, so you really do drain energy" after 19 grabs him, implying he was looking for confirmation on it, and stands still and stares at 19 for a bit as 19 drains him rather than immediately getting him off. I have no effin' idea how he didn't already know that.

Plus, him getting drained, despite knowing about that ability, just because he got arrogant and was taken off-guard just makes him look like even less of a 'fighting genius'. He only survived because Gero was a moron.

edited 12th Feb '14 3:08:49 AM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4932: Feb 12th 2014 at 2:38:20 AM

Gotcha, so Piccolo was on the mark. Man... that's so weird.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#4933: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:38:25 AM

[up] (x5)

Arale might be a little OP for the rest of that roster. Then again, Bobobo bo-bo bobo is in.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#4934: Feb 12th 2014 at 9:39:58 AM

Letting himself get drained isn't that bad of a plan considering the bag of Senzu Beans attached to a glorified bean dispenser that's still more useful than Yamcha Krillin thirty feet away. Vegeta knows what those do, he had one on Namek.

edited 12th Feb '14 9:41:48 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4935: Feb 12th 2014 at 11:32:42 AM

edited 12th Feb '14 12:12:47 PM by MsCC93

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#4936: Feb 12th 2014 at 12:52:22 PM

"Vegeta isn't scared of anything"

I said:

I never said they were otherwise. He didn't enter terrified of Frieza. It was only after seeing how shit he was next to him that the fear sunk in.

What that means is I never said Vegeta was afraid of nothing. I'm blatantly saying he is afraid there, so I don't get why you keep bringing that up as if I'm saying otherwise. See, not having fear is utterly inhuman, but having fear and still being able to act is another admirable quality. Even when he realized there was no chance of him beating Frieza, he never became a doomsayer.

Piccolo and Vegeta were equally relevant in the Cell arc. In the Buu arc, both are complete garbage to the villain, so it doesn't matter which is stronger than the other. Piccolo actually gets a lot of screen time and good moments that show off his more cunning side, while Vegeta helps the villain, arrogantly charges at said villain, and gets ass-stomped while the villain literally laughs at how weak he is.

1. I doubt that. Piccolo got one moment where he fused with Kami and did shit. Vegeta had his whole quest for the Super Saiyan powerup at the start, then his attaining a greater power, and finally that bit at the end with him and Trunks. Vegeta had an actual character arc while all Piccolo did was fall by the wayside. Yes, Piccolo had a good role in the Cell Arc, but hardly is it comparable to Vegeta's.

2. I don't see your point, again. The Buu Arc worked because Vegeta was around, and then he tried to clean up his mess of being the main cause for Buu's revival, and it failed because both he and Goku underestimated Buu. For the rest of that arc he pays for his mistakes and the character arc that spanned the entirety of the Saiyan Arc to the Buu Arc came to an end where he finally swallows that pride. Did he impact the arc? Yes, quite a bit in fact.

3. If you're gonna try to underplay Vegetto being a thing, I can do the same with everything that happens in any story. "Oh, X only did Y thing because plot!" That's literally the reason anything happens in any fiction.

Goku is Vegeta's rival, but not vice versa.

Cool, glad you've come to agree with what I said.

Goku sees Vegeta as weak trash, as he should. Goku can kill him in one punch at any time after the ROSAT training.

Goku sees Chi-Chi as a nagging whore.

See how that doesn't contradict anything, but is totally insulting to the character of Goku? Yeah, that "weak trash" bit is equally so. Don't do that.

Now, let's do away with this discussion since you'll never be able to tarnish Vegeta in my eyes and I'll never be able to do the opposite.

edited 12th Feb '14 12:55:01 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4937: Feb 12th 2014 at 1:43:08 PM

[up][up][up] Except he doesn't know if he can grab and eat a senzu before Gero kills him and Krillin. Going by what we saw earlier in the series, Gero would just destroy the beans so fast that no one would be able to see him move. Furthermore, Piccolo directly said that if 20 had just attacked, Vegeta would have been screwed. It's just massive PIS in a failed attempt to make an idiot look smart. It also makes Piccolo look dumb by extension, since he compliments Vegeta excessively for this incomprehensible and counter productive plan.

And even assuming he could get a senzu in time, what does he have to gain from letting himself get drained?

edited 12th Feb '14 1:44:22 PM by sockpuppet1

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4938: Feb 12th 2014 at 4:06:08 PM

....

So no reaction to what I said at all?

Though I'm not looking for attention or anything. Nope, not at all.

edited 12th Feb '14 4:06:31 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#4940: Feb 12th 2014 at 4:12:01 PM

Rob, I actually think you made a lot of great points.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4941: Feb 12th 2014 at 4:16:00 PM

[up][up]

DIE ALONE!!!!!tongue

[up]

Thanks man. It's good to be appreciated.

One Strip! One Strip!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4942: Feb 12th 2014 at 5:11:42 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4943: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:07:38 PM

[up]

That hurts man.sad

Eh. It's probably for the best though.

So..... New topic:

Other characters decide to learn Tien's Kikoushou? How much shit gets wrecked?

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4944: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:12:41 PM

I'd like to think it actually doesn't scale that well even with Shin Kikoho, so high-end battles just become the characters throwing each other around with Kikoho until one drops dead from the exhaustion of using it.

So you win by not actually using your Kikoho and just enjoying the ride.

edited 12th Feb '14 6:13:02 PM by Saiga

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#4945: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:25:25 PM

Depends on where you start.

If it can hold down Imperfect Cell, then presumably it can hold down characters weaker - though how much of a difference it makes is up in the air.

Got to hand it to Tien. That was one of the biggest middle fingers in all of Dragonball.

EDIT: I'm not familiar with all of the Japanese terms. Kikohou is the "Tri-Beam" correct? If so, then what I said above.

edited 12th Feb '14 6:30:55 PM by FOFD

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4946: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:29:07 PM

[up][up][up] Kidding. It just wasn't really an "argument" post, so I didn't bother responding.

Anyway, the Kikoho (single-shot) is said to be stronger than the Kamehameha. The Shin Kikoho is stronger and rapid-fire.

All battles come down to who gets hit first.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#4947: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:47:30 PM

I've always been baffled by how Roshi can be so horrified by the Tri-Beam destroying the ring in the 22nd Budokai. He says something about him being wrong comparing the Kamehameha to it - like the Kamehameha comes up short.

DUDE! You blew up THE MOON with it!

I genuinely believe the fan explanation of Toriyama having no idea of just how big the Moon is.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4948: Feb 12th 2014 at 6:59:03 PM

I think Tien held back just enough to only blow up the ring in that sense.

Roshi had to use the bulk of his power to blow up the moon.

Also, the fact that the Tri-Beam (since we're using english names) uses up the life force of the user probably made him freak out as well.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#4949: Feb 12th 2014 at 7:07:30 PM

So how come he makes a triangle with his hands to shoot a round projectile that makes a square crater?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4950: Feb 12th 2014 at 7:14:58 PM

SO PEOPLE DON'T CATCH ONTO HIS SHIT.

edited 12th Feb '14 7:25:37 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.

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