Alright. Completely forgot the second trip they made to the past.
- Goku and Vegeta head to the future to fight Black.
- Black shanks Vegeta and beats Goku and Trunks down. The heroes escape.
- They come back a 2nd time, but this is when Zamasu reveals that he killed Goku's family and all hell breaks loose.
- Black and Zamasu work together and beat Trunks, Goku, and Vegeta.
- Trunks activates his new form, but this only serves to hold the line while Goku and Vegeta retreat.
- Vegeta and Goku go back to the past. Vegeta trains in the ROSAT and Goku learns the Mafuba.
- They head back a 3rd time, Vegeta kicks Black's ass, Goku uses the Mafuba on Zamasu.
Based on that:
Less training yes, but the gap between Vegeta and Black wasn't far to begin with. He didn't "get his ass kicked," Black caught him off-guard in the first round, and Black and Zamasu were working together in the second. Vegeta saw the sword coming
in the third.
When Vegeta overwhelms Black in the third round, he's had 2 power-ups, 3-6 months to train and prepare for a rematch, and has Goku successfully aggro'ing Zamasu in his corner. The third fight goes the same way the first did except Black isn't able to catch Vegeta off-guard, and Vegeta is stronger than he was previously.
That contradicts what he says here
. They wouldn't have noticeable improvement after leaving the ROSAT because the only opponent to compare their full power to was Hit. They'd still be laughably above everyone else in Universe 6 with or without the training, as demonstrated by neither of them going higher than Super Saiyan against everyone but Hit and Cabba. The only ways they'd have noticeable improvement would be lasting longer against Beerus, or by obtaining Super Saiyan Mahogany.
.. Even before Universe 6 arc went with the "they are nearing their limits", you can see the signs for it back in the Boo arc. Yes, Gotenks and Gohan got huge power-ups in that arc, but that's because they have higher limits to reach. Vegeta and Goku spent 7 years training intensely, and their biggest benefit comes from having new transformations.
Kaioken hasn't been a thing since the Frieza arc. That didn't mean Goku couldn't use it anymore. There's no reason to assume that their species's biological ability has simply stopped working when we've seen it work for Cell.
There's no comparison between SS 2 Goku and Cell Saga SS 2 Gohan, and Vegeta didn't need to unlock SS 3 because Blue was better. Goku hasn't used SS 3 since his spar with Trunks, so Vegeta not unlocking it speaks to its inferiority rather than Vegeta's inability to obtain it through regular training. He did obtain SS 2 through regular training.
edited 20th Dec '16 4:08:47 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!It was an indirect death...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.This is mentioned when the wish is made.
He was already dying, but his first death was not due to old age, but due to heartbreak over Frieza and his men killing his children.
So he actually was killed by Frieza, even if only indirectly. That's why he was brought back by the wish. It's actually one of the reasons they made the wish.
Edit: Murasaki'ed.
edited 20th Dec '16 12:00:47 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!Anybody watch Dragon Ball Dissection by Mistare Fusion? I love the guy.
Giving more detail makes the post more worthwhile...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.It's because the dragon brings you back at the state you were before dying (think Freeza who got brought back in pieces) so bringing someone who's natural lifespan has run out would just result in them dying again immediately. Guru had a bit of natural lifespan left, so he could hold out for a while.
It would be: ∞
About that strong.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Hard doesn't necessarily mean strong. You don't see diamond blades in use (diamond-crusted blades have some industrial applications, but not pure diamond).
Also, with blades, hard doesn't equal sharp. The sharpest known substance is obsidian, but obsidian is super brittle and tends to break after cutting one thing.
edited 20th Dec '16 4:40:27 PM by DarkHunter
Well, Obsidian doesn't necessarily break after one use - only if you're a barbarian and try to chop something with an obsidian knife.
The real problem is that they lose their edge nigh-immediately, and sharpening one is not exactly easy, especially since they're so brittle.
Incidentally, you're still not at peak cutting power, that's still the domain of highly pressurized water, for the time being.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

Becuase Goku Black has no way to know how strong Goku or Vegeta were.