TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48601: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:14:55 PM

Right. Vegeta was just holding back and testing Goku Black's waters, hence him saying "I see, at this level no wonder Trunks couldn't beat you". Plus, Trunks later clarified that Black got so strong that he didn't need Super Saiyan to beat him.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48602: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:23:39 PM

From what I gather, Toei still follows the basic outline; everything that plays out between the Anime and Manga is the same in that regard.

The manga, being monthly, has far more time to explain and let things sit better but the pacing is pretty abridged considering it only comes once a month.

The anime kinda goes for style over substance by adding things like the Mafuba, Trunks` new forms, Kaioken SSB, etc etc. And it's explanations are only implied, but never outright explained. This is likely due to the animators basically only having a week to do every single episode while still trying to fit Toriyama's outline. There's also the fact that Toei like three other series they run.

I feel like the manga only works because it acts supplementary material for the Anime, which works in it's favor but the pacing is very rushed due to being a monthly series. Note that the adapted arcs in the manga have been less than 10 chapters.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48603: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:35:13 PM

Um... do we know that Trunks won't get those powers in the manga?

True, there's no proof of it, but lets wait and see here.

I mean, both the anime and the manga had the Goku has never kissed his wife bullshit because it must have been in Toriyama's original outline.

With no idea what is and isn't in the manga, we shouldn't assume anything yet about Trunks' powers being a pure anime thing.

What really terrifies me is that the ending to the Trunks Arc will be the same for both the anime and the manga, cause that's a dick more.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48604: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:38:51 PM

Toriyama likes his gags, and we know from Toyotaro's interview that gags are the only thing he really insists on including in both versions of Super. I wouldn't conflate the inclusion of a gag with the inclusion of a major plot element like a special snowflake transformation.

I also quite enjoy the manga on its own, without the need to watch the anime for a "larger picture".

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48605: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:42:53 PM

Didn't he already have it in the manga? That 'SS2 as strong as SS3 thing'.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48606: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:44:59 PM

That's not the Super God Trunks form though. Honestly, you could be right. Or it might just be the manga's way of giving Future Trunks his special Super Saiyan form, while saving Blue for next chapter. It's impossible to tell.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#48607: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:45:06 PM

What really terrifies me is that the ending to the Trunks Arc will be the same for both the anime and the manga, cause that's a dick more.

The fact that the future getting wiped is in both versions leads me to believe that Toriyama has plans for it. Not sure what that could be beyond the two Zen-Os, but the prospect is interesting.

This song needs more love.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48608: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:48:16 PM

[up][up][up][up] The Black arc isn't over yet so I do agree with Rob that we can't just assume things will be different just because of a few changed elements.

That said, given how little focus is given to Trunks` new transformation, I doubt it'd be included in the manga for the simple fact that there's no need for it. In the Anime, it was basically a Throw the Dog a Bone moment for Trunks, but beyond that it's pretty superfluous to the plot and wasn't needed to resolve it.

edited 19th Dec '16 8:51:04 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48609: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:49:43 PM

I do think the manga will have the same ending. That's too huge an event for it to be exclusive to the anime.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48610: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:50:46 PM

This is true.

We won't know if the transformations are in both versions until it happens, and speculating doesn't mean much until then.

Still though, Trunks' SSJ 2 as strong as SSJ 3 thing might be a bit of Foreshadowing.

One Strip! One Strip!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#48611: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:52:54 PM

Plus they need to explain where the second Zeno comes from.

I mean, that ending felt way too intentional to just be a Toei Thing. There was no fanservice there. There's nothing extra you could sell from that. I still don't really *get* the ending, but they had been building up to it. It was definitely intentional.

edited 19th Dec '16 8:53:34 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48612: Dec 19th 2016 at 8:54:03 PM

Vegeta already surpassed SSJ 3 before remember, and that was a Toriyama thing; so we can't just blame Toei for that. It's dumb, but there's precedence for it at least.

I can see Vegetto still showing up and having the same retcon, but Zamasu's defeat will likely play out slightly differently.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#48613: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:00:44 PM

I was thinking they might just use Gogeta. It's basically the same thing.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48614: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:04:49 PM

Heh. It'd be hilarious if Toei used Toriyama's creation and Toriyama used Toei's.

Especially since Vegetto only exists because Toei beat Toriyama to the punch in using dance fusion.

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#48615: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:53:00 PM

It's not just Vegeta becoming stronger than the guy who kicked their asses just by going into the Ro Sa T for a few months.

I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense.

Gotenks and Vegeta both improved by leaps and bounds from training in the ROSAT, and Zenkais have been pushing Saiyans farther and farther up the ladder since the beginning of the series.

Vegeta didn't "just become stronger than the guy who kicked his ass" he "became stronger than the guy who kicked his ass by having a biological advantage of vastly increasing his strength every time he gets his ass kicked, and also having months to plan against his enemy's fighting style."

edited 19th Dec '16 10:55:59 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#48616: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:23:45 PM

I guess I'm just so used to the assumption that people won't get stronger anymore unless they get a new form. And, like, Vegeta doesn't say he's actually gotten stronger from training. Black assumes it's basically another rage boost.

But I swear Goku says they've hit their limit when training for the tournament and won't get significantly stronger.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#48617: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:26:37 PM

Where does the Future Zeno comes from?

From the same place the present Zeno comes from, only on his timeline. The little guy is omnipotent, but not omnipresent and out of time. In fact, this is probably the reason why time travel is not allowed. Maybe those universes were destroyed by different Zenos due to time travelling?

[up] Saiyans have no limits, so at this point, it doesn't really matter.

edited 19th Dec '16 11:27:52 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#48618: Dec 20th 2016 at 12:05:53 AM

Yeah I don't really like the manga version of the Future Trunks saga too much.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#48620: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:00:12 AM

So, are they implying that the tournament is going to have 120 fighters plus 12 GoDs and their respective angels? That's what I'm reading out of it. I mean, presumably we'll only see a portion of those in action if its a standard tournament set-up, but still. There'll have to be a ton of characters.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#48621: Dec 20th 2016 at 6:05:41 AM

Man, manga Black is such a non-threat it's painful to watch. He was so much better in the anime.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#48622: Dec 20th 2016 at 6:05:45 AM

I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense.

Gotenks and Vegeta both improved by leaps and bounds from training in the ROSAT, and Zenkais have been pushing Saiyans farther and farther up the ladder since the beginning of the series.

Vegeta didn't "just become stronger than the guy who kicked his ass" he "became stronger than the guy who kicked his ass by having a biological advantage of vastly increasing his strength every time he gets his ass kicked, and also having months to plan against his enemy's fighting style."

Literally the arc prior had Goku and Vegeta train for 3 years and make no noticeable improvements. Prior to entering Vegeta evens says they're close to reaching their limits, and do not have a lot to gain from that training.

So after doing that, even less training is enough for Vegeta to overwhelm a guy who kicked his ass. That's about a clear a contradiction as can be. The near death power-ups haven't actually been a thing for Goku and Vegeta since the Freeza arc.

Even before Universe 6 arc went with the "they are nearing their limits", you can see the signs for it back in the Boo arc. Yes, Gotenks and Gohan got huge power-ups in that arc, but that's because they have higher limits to reach. Vegeta and Goku spent 7 years training intensely, and their biggest benefit comes from having new transformations. Despite the amount of time they spent training, SS2 Goku wasn't much stronger than Cell Games SS2 Gohan and Vegeta hadn't even surpassed that level.

Vegeta's massive RoSaT gains (for both trips he did) came at the same time as discovering new Super Saiyan forms (Grade II and III) and mastering Super Saiyan. It wasn't just "he trained and got stronger" he had a major breakthrough that let me overcome the wall he'd mentioned hitting before he went in. Even back in the Android arc they were finding it difficult to become stronger while sticking with the same transformations.

edit: On the latest chapter: I find it interesting that Goku Black still retains his mysterious ability of getting stronger, and Zamasu brings it up in relation to gaining the ultimate body. That's clearly a reference to merged Zamasu, but it appears that Zamasu is waiting for that increase in power to reach some point before he does that. I expect that this will lead to him getting Super Saiyan Rose, since he's almost definitely not capable of it right now. If so, I'm interested in seeing if the manga would explain this power increase or what Rose actually is. That would be nice.

edited 20th Dec '16 6:10:10 AM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48623: Dec 20th 2016 at 6:29:45 AM

Yea, I'm glad the manga goes out of it's way of making sense, but seeing Black get punked like this is just so boring haha. Even if he does get Rose, he'll likely just be even with Vegeta and weaker than Goku before they merge.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#48624: Dec 20th 2016 at 6:35:14 AM

Which gives them a reason to merge.

If he does go Rose, that's a good way to force Goku to also take this seriously, so that they're not merging while still being treated like jokes. And to be honest, Vegeta's beatdown of Black here is a replacement to when he did the same to beating down Super Saiyan Rose Black in the anime. The second is much more pathetic given that he's in his strongest form when it happens.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48625: Dec 20th 2016 at 6:51:49 AM

Yea, but that's after Vegeta trains and had already lost to Black once; this is their first fight in the Manga. Sure, Black losing in a lesser form isn't as bad, but then it makes you wonder why he ever thought he could take Goku or Vegeta to begin with.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Total posts: 130,800
Top