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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#48276: Dec 15th 2016 at 5:47:59 AM

[up]x5 There's also the fact that the Super Saiyan Gohan was able to pull free the Z sword, which "countless" Kaioshin failed to do. So the normal level for Kaioshin is definitely lower than that, if not all of them (only the anime implies anything different, unless you assume the South Kaioshin is the reason Super/Buff Boo are so strong).

edited 15th Dec '16 5:48:20 AM by Saiga

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#48277: Dec 15th 2016 at 5:50:31 AM

Surprised Saiga doesn't like Hx H much.

I like it because it takes many tropes from shonen to their logical extreme (Gon takes Goku's Blue-and-Orange Morality to its logical conclusion) and makes it so that the villains are more then just about fighting the heroes.

edited 15th Dec '16 5:50:48 AM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#48278: Dec 15th 2016 at 5:51:45 AM

I liked the earlier arcs well enough

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#48279: Dec 15th 2016 at 5:55:31 AM

The earlier arcs are good.

The Chimera Ants arc is when the series really gets complex. Meruem is a realistic interpretation of Cell, and his fight with Netero is badass, especially in the anime.

Watch Symphogear
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48280: Dec 15th 2016 at 6:01:45 AM

I mean, I don't remember, but I think the manga did mention that Buu killed all the other Supreme Kais, and absorbed 2 of them, and that each of those Supreme Kais made ours look like pathetic garbage.

The anime just showed the actual fights via flashback.

I meant the Super manga.

edited 15th Dec '16 6:02:21 AM by VeryMelon

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48282: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:43:18 AM

I mean the lack power inflation in the manga makes the god forms more unique and special...but then it just makes Black and Zamasu hilariously incompetent that they thought they could take them on at all.

I do at least agree on not including Super Trunks at least, but Vegetto felt like it could have worked.

It's the same thing with Hit, who's basically reduced to a gimmick fighter in the manga; once their gimmick is exposed, they go down like chumps.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:43:32 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#48283: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:06:08 AM

Power inflation has always been at thing in Dragon Ball, no reason why Super should stop doing it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#48284: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:16:20 AM

I mean. Goku Black having inflated power makes more sense than him not having it. Zamasu was supposed to have stolen that body from some point after Battle of Gods. So Goku Black really should be around Super Saiyan Blue level. Or thereabouts.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#48285: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:21:46 AM

Well, at least he is doing better than Ginyu when he pulled that out, just to get beaten up by Gohan and Krillin.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#48286: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:24:43 AM

I mean, I figure Ginyu could have gotten used to that body and worked things out given enough time and practice with it.

He just didn't get the chance.

Goku Black has apparently had a decent amount of time and killed a decent number of universes up to this point.

edited 15th Dec '16 8:25:45 AM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48287: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:25:28 AM

[up][up][up]

My thoughts exactly.

Zamasu is a god in the body of a being who gained the power of the gods. A body that grows stronger after every battle. I just assumed that something about that weird combo let him keep growing stronger constantly.

As for me....I kinda agree with most who say that skipping Rose and the like is questionable. I'm ok with leaving out the junk with the Mafuuba (which seemed to only be there to pad things out since it was useless anyway) and Trunks' random power-ups, but as others have mentioned, if these dudes aren't a threat (one is in the body of the strongest mortal who has the power of a god along with all of the saiyan's ridiculous power up bullshit, and the other is a prodigy Kai), then how are we meant to take them seriously.

Although them needing to fuse to challenge Goku and Vegeta because they aren't strong enough on their own might work a little, but despite its flaws, I think the anime worked better with it's interpretation

[up]I figure it's because he's a god with centuries of experience. He's likely just better at it.

edited 15th Dec '16 8:26:10 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#48288: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:33:52 AM

Like, I can see Goku Black being overwhelmed by Goku and Vegeta, and Zamasu not being strong enough even as an immortal to be very effective backup.

But that's not quite what it sounds like is happening. It depends on what they mean by "no Super Saiyan Rosé"

Like, what I think would work is a 2 on 2 where three of the participants are mostly equal, and the fourth guy sucks ass. But is unkillable.

Either way, Goku and Vegeta working together is probably better than Goku Black solo. And either of them is better than Zamasu. But Goku Black and Goku should be sorta an even match, I feel, at least purely in terms of power, otherwise there's no real point.

I mean.

According to the wiki on Rosé, Toriyama's notes just called it "Super Saiyan" but said the hair color is different. So. I dunno what that means?

Like, the thing is, I feel like Goku and Vegeta still going Super Saiyan separate from Super Saiyan Blue is also more of a Toei thing than a Toriyama thing. I feel like Super Saiyan Blue is just. Well. Super Saiyan. From now on. Or supposed to be.

edited 15th Dec '16 8:37:49 AM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48289: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:37:46 AM

Plus, since Zamasu and Black are the same dude, they should be incredibly in synch. Like, when one kicks a dude in the air from behind a building, the other should be their to punch the dude that was kicked right in the stomach, despite having no way to know what was happening.

They should know what the other is thinking even before hand and constantly be outmanoeuvring their opponents with perfect team work.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#48290: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:38:30 AM

I mean. Zamasu can't throw his weight around on Goku or Vegeta's level. So there's that.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48291: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:41:37 AM

Like, the thing is, I feel like Goku and Vegeta still going Super Saiyan separate from Super Saiyan Blue is also more of a Toei thing than a Toriyama thing

Manga Goku could use SS 3 against Future Trunks.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#48292: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:44:43 AM

I mean.

It could have been Super Saiyan Blue 3.

Or maybe he can't channel the god energy as effectively in the higher forms of Super Saiyan. so they've gotten weaker by comparison. He can still, y'know, do them though.

And I don't know to what extent the manga reflects Toriyama any more than the anime does.

edited 15th Dec '16 8:46:08 AM by unnoun

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48293: Dec 15th 2016 at 9:05:30 AM

Toriyama encourages both Toei and Toyotaro to handle his outline for Super as they see fit.

And it was regular Super Saiyan 3. in the manga, Goku can still use Super Saiyam God as a regular transformation too.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48294: Dec 15th 2016 at 9:14:03 AM

I feel like the manga would benefit if it didn't have to rush it's plot points to keep up with the Anime; it honestly has the opposite problems.

The Anime drags things out, while manga rushes past everything.l

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48295: Dec 15th 2016 at 9:20:59 AM

Most likely due to being a monthly.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#48296: Dec 15th 2016 at 9:27:44 AM

It's not like you can't work around that.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48297: Dec 15th 2016 at 9:40:37 AM

We'll never know, so it's just conjecture.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#48298: Dec 15th 2016 at 12:07:05 PM

So Vados worked unwillingly as a middle man to hire Hit? Huh.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#48299: Dec 15th 2016 at 1:23:27 PM

Anyone that can make Vados do anything unwillingly would one-shot Goku anyway, why even bother?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#48300: Dec 15th 2016 at 1:59:13 PM

The only person in Universe 6 I can think of with a grudge against Goku would be Frost, but it'd make more sense for him to target Vegeta. And I can't imagine why Vados would help Frost.

So the culprit is likely someone entirely new... or possibly Champa, trying to pull one over on Beerus.

edited 15th Dec '16 2:00:00 PM by DarkHunter


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