Yeah, he was way stronger than Gohan and everyone else. He probably could have challenged Super Vegetto prior to Gotenks turning Super Saiyan 3. By that point, before the fight began, he had lost a tremendous amount of power that he previously possessed due to the events on the Lookout. It's what made him start planning to absorb Gotenks to compensate for the power loss.
edited 4th Feb '14 9:02:45 PM by sockpuppet1
That seems rather wrong. He was stronger than when he was fat boo, but still within SSJ 3 Goku's power, so still below Gohan after the power-up.
Chiatzu, Gotenks, Oolong, Emperor Pilaf, Maron, Garlic Junior...Yamcha's not the only Joke Character. I noticed that Yamcha along with Chi-Chi gets singled out on this website and this forum for their flaws as characters. I don't think they are the best characters because of the English Dub's awful treatment of them, but they aren't the worst in my opinion.
edited 6th Feb '14 7:29:53 AM by MsCC93
Nobody takes Chiaoutzu or Pilaf seriously.
Oolong isn't meant to be a fighter. Marron (which one?) is a filler character and not seen as important.
Gotenks is made up of two powerful but stupid kids.
And Garlic Junior could be a threat if he didn't keep making the exact same mistake (though it's only a mistake because people keep finding a convenient way to take away his advantage).
Yamacha is a joke because he's….. well, I think because people like mocking him, simple as that.
One Strip! One Strip!I think Yamcha is mocked because he acts like he's one of the normal Z-fighters but he never actually accomplishes anything. The only time I can think of where he accomplished something is when he got one of the Saibamen to blow themselves up. Of course that resulted in him dying so him taking it out didn't do much for the heroes. Did he actually win any fights in Dragon Ball?
edit: Chiaotzu also doesn't accomplish anything from what I recall but he isn't really treated as one of the normal fighters. The others react with surprise when he gets involved in the Saiyan fight for example and he never does any fighting after that.
edited 6th Feb '14 9:36:53 AM by Kostya
Can't remember when that was. Still not a clear victory for him though. The other humans stop being important but at least they contribute something.
Krillin killed three of the Saibamen during the Saiyan saga and managed to cut off Frieza's tail. There might be other stuff I'm forgetting.
Tien killed a Saibamen and was able to keep Cell and Buu distracted to buy time for the other fighters to try and do something.
Heck, even Yajirobe contributed more than Yamcha. He managed to kill Cymbal and cut off Vegeta's tail which was instrumental in defeating him.
Videl does nothing.
Yajirobe killed Cymbal, a demon warrior, alone, fought Goku to a draw while he was at full power, saved his life by taking him to Karin's tower and climbing it effortlessly, defeated Oozaru Vegeta essentially alone, and saved everyone from regular Vegeta by launching a ballsy sneak attack.
Yamcha fought a tired and starving Goku to a draw, helped against two semi-regular human henchmen (that Goku had already weakened), helped Puar stop Oozaru Goku, defeated the Invisible Man (with help from three people while Invisible Man only had help from one), and died to a Saibaman.
That's all of their greatest accomplishments. You be the judge.
Puar was more useful than Yamcha.
I didn't mind Yamcha and Ten being demoted to extra. They were both boring and, with Krillin and Piccolo, completely superfluous.
Oh wait, Yamcha actually DID beat one named character on his own: Chi Chi, when she was still 12 years old, before she was trained in martial arts by her father. So yeah, Yamcha's greatest accomplishment was beating up a little girl.
EDIT: Oh, and Kaio-Ken wouldn't keep the humans relevant. Like I said earlier in this thread, the strongest human, Krillin, was still weaker than base android arc Vegeta. Which just makes sense, as Goku has ALWAYS been ahead of the humans by a large margin even before SS was a thing. Super Saiyan is a x50 multiplier while kaio-ken at its very best is x20, and the highest level its comfortably been used at is x10. The humans would still be irrelevant, even with generous estimates of their strength to begin with. Example:
Krillin- 3.5
—KK x10- 35
—KK x20- 70
(but if he tries to activate the x20 KK, he immediately becomes useless after using it for five seconds)
Vegeta- 5
—SS- 250
(can use this whenever he wants with ease for a long amount of time)
The other humans are far weaker than Krillin. They still wouldn't contribute. Even if you contrive some way to knock the Super Saiyans out of the picture, Piccolo would then be the one who renders everyone else irrelevant.
edited 6th Feb '14 10:56:32 AM by sockpuppet1
...He couldn't have one shotted anyone at all. It's one of those things of using the powers for things other than what's obvious. Being able to hurt anyone isn't the point. The point is immobilizing the bastard and keeping him from fucking everything for everyone.
Granted, he should have had more of a plan in place. Had someone to get 18 and maybe 16 but definitely 18 the fuck away from there while he kept Cell busy.
But it was a valiant effort and stuff.
edited 6th Feb '14 10:53:32 AM by unnoun
Of course he can't, but some people use the logic of "the Kikoho budged Cell, 16's punch was tanked, 16 is shown to be able to one-shot the other androids, Kikoho >>>> 16 >>>>>>>>>> 17/18" to argue for Ten being able to one-shot the androids all along, yet just not doing it for whatever reason.
edited 6th Feb '14 10:55:38 AM by sockpuppet1
I don't think that really matters? Like, getting into power level wank is like the opposite of interesting or worthwhile?
But yeah, neat character moment. Could have, you know, accomplished more, but still. Yay humans doing things.
Although Hercule basically saved the universe against Buu. Weaponized fame and ego. I love that. For one instant, Hercule's publicity was the most powerful force in the universe.
And I think that's a thing of true beauty.
edited 6th Feb '14 11:01:19 AM by unnoun
Power level debates are quite interesting and worthwhile, to me at least. It's a series about fighting, so I'm not sure how establishing who's stronger than who is a bad thing.
I'm just bringing up the fact that fanboys can easily ruin your perception of a scene. Especially when you weren't crazy about it to begin with, because Ten being able to stun Cell like that when Kamiccolo couldn't do anything to a much weaker form earlier really doesn't make any sense.
Nah, Gohan would still have more power in his pinky than Mr. Satan would by gathering all of the power of the Earthlings (+Goku and Vegeta). And it's hard for me to really see that as a good moment for him, or him saving the universe, because there were about four much easier methods of doing so that the heroes turned down. Gohan in particular is just a big shadow hanging over the final battle the whole time:
Old Kai- here, take the Potara and end Buu in one blast.
Goku- Nope. (destroys it) I wanna fight him, it'll be fun.
(five minutes later)
Goku- oh shit, Buu's kicking my ass! Let's go grab Gohan and Gotenks and have one of them take him out!
Vegeta- no. I don't wanna. Instead let's make the Earthlings clean up our mess. Also, your son doesn't count as an Earthling despite being half human and being raised on Earth.
Goku- wow, that's brilliant!
edited 6th Feb '14 11:11:59 AM by sockpuppet1
It didn't hurt Cell at all. The only thing it did was keep him down. The force alone.
I like not powerful things used in powerful ways. I prefer intelligence over brute force.
I also like that Hercule being a selfish braggart was able to inspire billions of people and save everyone. I like that him being basically harmless and a coward was able to turn the worst monster good and keep the world safe, at least temporarily.
Because as someone that's actually been in fights, and actually enjoys it as an activity, I am sick of the fact that this series and others like it have degenerated into glorified pissing contests. All it is now is just arguing over who has the biggest energy cock. I don't find that very interesting.
It shouldn't be about "who's stronger" anyway. It should be about who is able to actually use their "power" effectively in an actual goddamned fight.
edited 6th Feb '14 11:18:02 AM by unnoun

Wait, what?