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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46651: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:26:52 PM

Nah, Kid Boo was more edutaining than Zamas...

edited 16th Nov '16 7:27:05 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#46652: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:28:21 PM

I mean, there is a way to keep a supporting cast and do it well. Most of the stuff with Bulma and Mai had pretty interesting ways of making them important without them suddenly getting powerups. Although a lot of people called bullshit on the idea that smoke bombs would actually work against Zamasu in Episode 57.

They just need to think things very slowly and carefully next time.

I'd also be scared of how they'd handle a Gohan comeback, but what Toriyama did in the Buu Saga was basically almost as bad as how Toei handled Trunks. You know, just getting random power-ups out of nowhere and then turning into generic hero.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:29:20 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46653: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:42:49 PM

That one power-up wasn't random, it was a gift of patience...sitting on your butt for hours on end really hurts the tail bone.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46654: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:48:50 PM

Also, Vegeta skipped the God form and went straight to Blue; the only form of media that ever implies he actually got God was the Resurrection F movie. After that, they just go, "no, Vegeta got the Blue form on his own."

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#46655: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:59:37 PM

Super DBH gameplay of SSJ3 Raditz:

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46656: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:07:41 PM

He has gone beyond Double Sunday.

It is now Double Monday.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#46657: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:11:57 PM

Actually, SSJ3 Raditz's special attack is Weekend, his ultimate from Xenoverse.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46658: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:12:55 PM

But it's not Double enough, even if there's two days in the weekend.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#46659: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:11:02 PM

it's like every parody of the ridiculously-long hair in DBZ made real

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#46660: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:18:56 PM

On Goku being a mutant, can't remember who to quote, but that's still iffy at best. How do we know Goku and Vegeta are the only pure blooded saiyans to get such gains when they're the only pure blooded saiyans we see getting any gains whatsoever? Nappa was Goku's equal, Nappa knew it, Goku knew it, Vegeta knew it. Goku pushed passed him with the fist of the worlds but supposed Nappa knew fists of the worlds? Then Nappa would have been able to beat Vegeta.

Granted, that would bring the question of exactly how would he get it, he's not exactly the type that would keep his body in the afterlife, but he's also not the type to voluntarily give up his tail and likely knows how to control his transformation anyway given he's an "elite".

Main point being, Goku's not that special. He's not the first super saiyan, not the first super saiyan god. The first in a long while, sure, but pretty much everything he's done has been done before and is usually replicated after, not long after either. Freeza specifically said saiyans had infinite potential, he didn't find Vegeta's gain on Namek surprising at all and suspected their might be an even stronger saiyan somewhere out there, if the two lower power levels on Earth hadn't surpassed Vegeta already.

So if Freeza, the one who killed off the saiyans out of paranoia, doesn't find such gains to be especially noteworthy, it's safe to assume Goku's gains aren't that noteworthy among saiyans. What makes him an anomaly, indirectly according to Vegeta, are his many sensei. And remember Caba is a full blooded saiyan too. If anyone's a mutant, it's probably him, until information is released that says otherwise(it could just be Vados training at work, since unlike Beerus/Whis she actually put effort into building a team)

Buldogue's lawyer
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#46661: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:22:16 PM

Speaking of Kyabe, do you figure he'd rat on Frost when he gets back home to U6? Or just keep quiet to preserve the status quo? Because if Frost's PR really IS good, then having the Saiyans there suddenly go against him might not turn out well for them.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#46662: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:31:13 PM

I'm sure they'll address it in the Multiverse Tournament Saga.

For now, admire these luscious locks...

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46663: Nov 17th 2016 at 1:09:32 AM

Nappa was Goku's equal

No he wasn't. He wasn't anywhere close. Nappa had a battle power of 4,000 while Goku had a battle power of over 8,000.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#46665: Nov 17th 2016 at 2:36:16 AM

Incidentally, I'm finding some parts of Dragon Ball's hatedom to be absolutely hilarious, like every time they start shouting about how "Goku is the worst father ever!" and someone points out "yeah, he is, but that's the norm in shonen action and here's a list of other fathers that are also horrible" and it happens to include the father of their favorite series...

Well, I've seen people falling all over themselves to defend Namikaze Minato, Isshin Kurosaki and similar others, while condemning Goku.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46666: Nov 17th 2016 at 2:45:45 AM

One thing that really bugs me is when people give Goku shit for not using Kaiou to talk to his family during the time skip between the Cell Saga and the Boo Saga. Like, yeah, he could but he was dead. He didn't want his family to be relying on him for anything anymore because, as he saw it, he wasn't going to see them again until they died (assuming they decided to keep their bodies). It's not like Goku was on an over seas business trip or something. Then he spends nearly the entire Boo Saga trying to make it so that people don't have to rely on him anymore since he doesn't want people to rely on someone who's dead and everyone in the fandom gives him shit for it.

Honestly, this reasoning is probably why Goku didn't use his one day on Earth in the Future Trunks timeline to curbstomp the Androids after sufficient training.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46667: Nov 17th 2016 at 2:51:15 AM

He's terrible for the "right" reasons...

Development.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#46668: Nov 17th 2016 at 3:20:41 AM

He's not really terrible for the right reasons - he's a terrible father because Goku is a manchild and generally isn't good when it comes down to taking responsibility.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#46669: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:07:17 AM

@IANCE

You know you actually had me look at the events of the series in a different light. I guess the whole 'Goku saves the day all the time' is simply a meme and nothing more.

"Mai waifu."
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46670: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:08:15 AM

This post

No, it's pretty obvious most pure-blood saiyans are garbage, even without Toriyama statements. King Vegeta's battle power was 10,000, and he was the most powerful Saiyan. That's not even half as strong as Dodoria. Thousands of saiyans all fighting, getting zenkais and living on a planet with 10Gs, but none could get over 10,000.

That points to Goku and Vegeta being super special.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#46671: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:16:22 AM

You presuming they actually get injured enough to have Zenkais. Saiyans aren't a warrior race, they are a race of bullies that prefer beating up opponents than enjoying the battle. Plus, not all aliens are powerful enough to be a threat, say the Namekian villagers. It's more likely they use that artificial moon technique to turn into their monkey forms and stomp on weaker aliens.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46672: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:18:18 AM

They're definitely a warrior race that trains. No Saiyan would be born with power levels in the thousands. They'd have to train.

And if you take Dragonball Minus into account, we see a young Raditz and Vegeta on another planet, meaning even kids are out there fighting.

Even if we assume Raditz was born with a power level of 1500 and kept that all his life by never getting a zenkai, he still lived on Planet Vegeta, which is 10Gs for a chunk of his life. Goku spent a few months in 10Gs and was almost as strong as King Vegeta by the end.

edited 17th Nov '16 4:20:10 AM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#46673: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:19:07 AM

Ah good, this discussion of whether Goku and Vegeta are mutants was reignited after all. evil grin

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#46674: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:21:27 AM

Training effectively. Not killing Saibaman as target practice. Vegeta never had gravity training until Bulma provided him with a gravity machine. Plus, Goku had the Kaioken, and gained multiple zenkais from shooting himself with the Kamehameha and a supply of Senzu.

edited 17th Nov '16 4:22:49 AM by Ikedatakeshi

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46675: Nov 17th 2016 at 4:27:00 AM

None of that has anything to do with what I said.

Goku got to 8000. Nappa was a Saiyan elite, and only had 4000. Nappa was the strongest Saiyan after Vegeta and his father, and he was only 4000. Taking Toriyama's statements into account, there were only 10 saiyan elites, including Nappa. That means 10 Saiyans out of thousands managed to get power levels of ~4000, while King Vegeta's 10000 was absolutely astounding.

Goku got to 8000 in a few months of just getting used to King Kai's planet. All King Kai taught him was how to use the spirit bomb and the kaioken. The 8000 is Goku without the Kaioken. He's base 8000, and in only a few months. Most of the saiyans that lived on Planet Vegeta all their lives couldn't even get to 4000.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

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