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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#46176: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:05:38 PM

This post

You sure I'm the right person to address that stuff to?

I'm saying there's no reason for Vegito to toy with Zamas. As fun as it is watching Vegito be a cocky, arrogant dick, there was no room for that in this fight. And it isn't like he wasn't being cocky, or that he was actually being pushed in the fight.

I agree, Vegito slapping him around would've been cool, but it would have also been out of place given the circumstances.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#46177: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:07:37 PM

@Cruherrx

Eh, the only reason Vegito was toying with Buu so much was because he wanted to goad Buu into absorbing him. He doesn't have any reason to play with Zamasu.

But he does have one reason to dick around with Zamasu.

Goku has shown in the past that he can be cruel enough to play with his food to make the humiliation all the worse - that's what he did with Freeza. Vegeta is even more cruel than that.

Vegetto could very easily have a perfectly good reason to dick around with Zamasu, namely, I want to see him suffer.

And it should've been exactly that, with Vegetto weakening Zamasu to the point that Goku, Vegeta and Trunks could take him out after the fusion ran out because of a bunch of reasons that don't need a retcon thrown in.

By the by, as a writer myself, I can only say that it's pathetic how often people who are supposed to be professional writers resort to retcons instead of writing an explanation that doesn't require changing a previously established thing. Especially bad when giving another kind of explanation would be incredibly easy.

edited 12th Nov '16 11:11:41 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46178: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:19:04 PM

The spirit sword return was ok I guess. Vegetto though never should have been in that position though, when Goku alone could make Zamatsu's face and arm fall apart Vegetto should have made him his bitch.

Also his trademark intelligence and planning was not shown at all, he has the brains of two of the best and creative fighters ever and just went Attack! Attack! Attack!.

edited 12th Nov '16 11:19:19 PM by Memers

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#46179: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:19:51 PM

The reason why Vegeto could not play with Zamasu is because Zamasu is actually at his level.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#46180: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:20:03 PM

For all of the things I may have loved and hated about this arc, Super in general; one thing is certain.

It was okay. I didn't like Zamasu once his characterization was finalized, but Black was pretty cool for most of his appearance, even if I didn't like "Evil Goku" as a legitimized concept.

The scene with the scythe is actually pretty cool by itself - the way he holds it, Black's admittance that the tear could be another universe, the look in his eyes. I don't know why but I really like that bit.

"I had another in a capsule. It's just a sword."

B, but it came from... another planet... maybe... it's a heroic sword, you don't just build a replica! And I meant how he magic'd his sword back together just now, not when 18 broke it!

So, how would you rate Black and Zamasu among the rest of the Dragon Ball villains?

  • Kid Buu (never changes, I gotta go with "crazy enough to blow up the planet with you on it," also the way he would stomp his foot through the ground to hit someone, Buu's techniques were entertaining)
  • Frieza (because he and Goku just had a grudge match, plain and simple)
  • Goku Black (ugh, never thought I'd say this, but for aforementioned reasons I've come to like his design, his scythe, and his attitude)
  • Evil Shenron (series namesakes turning into villains, etc)
  • Tien
  • Mercenary Tao
  • King Piccolo
  • The dinosaur that attacked Bulma in the first episode
  • The dirt
  • The worms inside of the dirt
  • Bacterian's stool.
  • Zamasu

There's also the fact that Vegetto 2 and a half episodes in Z to show off, while he's only in a third of this one. So of course he comes off as a bit less entertaining.

This. Vegito's cameo here was solely about him kicking ass and taking names within a brief window. Of course my preference would've been Vegito beating Zamasu and getting stuck as Vegito for another arc, while the Super Dragonballs are out of play or locked up by Gowasu.

Also, no one was impressed by Trunks cutting Zamasu in half groin first? Take that man pain you bastard!

...I missed that. I remember split in half, not from the groin first. Ugh, that's... that's unpleasant.

edited 12th Nov '16 11:24:16 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46181: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:22:24 PM

[up][up] There is no reason why he should have been, Goku did so much damage to him to the point where Goku + Vegeta should have been WAY above his power.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46182: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:25:48 PM

He's also partially immortal, and still has access to Black's "get stronger the more I'm beaten up" ability; Vegito was probably making him stronger throughout that. Or Zamasu was getting serious himself.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#46183: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:28:28 PM

[up][up]Why Black was already stronger then them and Zamasu was pretty tough as well. The fusion made Zamasu very powerful. His main issue being that he was falling apart.

Goku only overpowered one of his attacks by using that Kaioken as well.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46184: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:29:06 PM

[up][up] Black would need to heal to do that, the plot point was he wasn't actually healing just mutating.

edited 12th Nov '16 11:29:35 PM by Memers

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#46185: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:29:29 PM

True. No one had been able to cause much damage to Black once he went SSR. THEN he fused with Zamasu, and while I guess that wouldn't have caused a big of a jump as Goku+Vegeta's equal strength, it's still significant.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46186: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:32:34 PM

Wouldn't the mutating also be making him stronger?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46187: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:46:53 PM

Would this all be better-received if it was more clear that Vegito had at least damaged Zamasu enough for Trunks to finish him off with the Spirit Bomb Sword doohickey, making it seem like less of an asspull power-up?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46188: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:49:54 PM

He became...Ascended Super Trunks. (Yes, that's what the episode guides were calling him in that new form of his from earlier, Super Trunks.)

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#46189: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:51:04 PM

Spirit Bomb Sword might've been better backed by 7 billion+ humans.Not some thousands.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#46190: Nov 12th 2016 at 11:54:11 PM

I mean, Goku and Vegeta also give him their energy as well.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#46191: Nov 13th 2016 at 12:41:17 AM

Trunks knows Spirit Bomb Sphere?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#46192: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:03:10 AM

I mean, could it have gotten clearer that Vegetto damaged him quite a lot? He said he wasn't immortal anymore, and Zamasu's body got more and more damaged as the fight went on.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#46193: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:27:39 AM

I mean, its not like it wasn't clear Vegetto was winning; sure, Zamasu got a few good hits in and put up a much better fight than Buu, but it was plain as day that Vegetto would have won if the fusion didn't run out.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#46194: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:45:47 AM

My biggest problem with it is that it wasn't anywhere near as fun as Vegetto's original appearance.

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46195: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:54:03 AM

I wonder if in the next ep Zeno sets up something similar to Xenoverse and sets up something to keep Future Trunks out of the plot. Even maybe introduce the Supreme Kai of Time to put the foot down on the time travel while giving Trunks something to do.

Even if Trunks just goes home he is powerful enough now and easily accessed to be called to help each big threat, I don't see them keeping that around.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#46196: Nov 13th 2016 at 2:33:55 AM

I thought this episode was fantastic and thematically it was the perfect ending to this storyline.

First, Zamasu, an immortal god, fuses with himself in the mortal body of Son Goku, using a method of fusion reserved for gods.

Then, the mortal Son Goku uses the same godly method of fusing to fuse with another mortal, Vegeta.

Then, Vegito fights a winning battle against fused Zamasu, which he is winning specifically because the mortal body of Son Goku is destabilizing Zamasu's fusion as much as it is powering Vegito's.

Then, Trunks, mortal son of the mortal Vegeta, and hero to the future world Zamasu has ravaged, takes up his broken sword, reforms it with Ki, and goes in to fight Zamasu despite not having a chance in hell.

Then, Trunks gets powered up by the collective strength of all the mortals Zamasu has hurt and left homeless and hopeless, and uses that power to literally cut Zamasu in half, which also visually separates him into his destabilized melting half and his green godly half.

The only way this climax could possibly be more thematically perfect is if Mai's shot, made with Bulma's bullet, had contributed to Zamasu's destabilization by damaging the Potara earring.

Bolded1 Fate, guide me from behind you!!!!!!!! Since: Mar, 2015
Fate, guide me
#46197: Nov 13th 2016 at 3:32:12 AM

Vegito was Too Powerful to Live, they needed something to write him out of the plot. It's true that the retcon is a bit weird, but it's still better off.

The battle between Zamasu and Vegito was short, but epic, you really felt the power of the chars. I'm not surprised with Zamasu actually putting up a fight, since I felt like he was still overwhelmed during most of the battle.

IMO, Trunks and the Earth finishing off Zamasu is a good way to end the plot. After all the suffering he inflicted upon the Human race (and countless species), it is fitting that their combined energy ends him. Plus, it was his arc, after all.

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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#46198: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:39:04 AM

The Vegito vs Zamasu battle was great, since this time Vegito actually had to fight seriously. And it looked epic.

Unfortunately it was cut short just so they could force in Trunks having a final hit on Zamasu and man, that was a load of crap. The shining sword, the spontaneous spirit bomb, the speech about being not alone, cutting the big bad vertically in half... it was like the most generic anime final battle ever.

I really dislike how much they force Trunks to be in the middle of everything this arc. They handled him way better in Androids saga.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#46199: Nov 13th 2016 at 4:58:53 AM

[up] You mean a person who literally did nothing throughout the entire thing aside from killing Frieza to boost his Worf Effect effect and used on damn near everyone at every stage of the saga?

I mean seriously Trunks didn't do anything that saga even though he was so hyped up via Frieza. He was even pulled a Krillin in the Cell Games in getting killed to piss someone off.

Its nice to have someone else get the final blow for once although some set up should have been there first.

edited 13th Nov '16 5:00:21 AM by Memers

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#46200: Nov 13th 2016 at 5:45:40 AM

Whoa boy, that episode was a woozy. Some thoughts:

  • Blue Kaioken comes back, but on a small capacity. That's cool, use the dangerous technique sparingly;
  • Clumsy Potara retcon is clumsy. Huge Voodoo Shark;
  • Vegetto's appearance is nevertheless pretty cool. Love that fluid animation, him going to town on Zamasu, the return of Final Kamehameha and the Light Sword... good stuff, all of it, even if it ultimately didn't impact the plot that much;
  • Zamasu going off the deep end is a thing of beauty. His grotesque face, him still insisting that Gods are perfect (contrary to all proof), his spontaneous tears... I kinda expected Zamasu to see his reflection on Trunks' sword and freak out further once he saw what he looked like;
  • Speaking of Zamasu, I'm gonna miss that asshole, he was a fun villain;
  • Trunks has the power, unlocked his cosmos, told all the buys and girls to be good and eat their vitamins, and finally defeated the villain. That was cheesy as fuck, and I both love it and find it dumb. I swear I started humming the He-Man theme song as he regrew his sword out of effing nowhere. Still, good to see the thematically right character defeat the villain.

That arc was quite the journey. I'm actually pretty curious to see what Toyotaro will make of it, considering his version can help in ironing out storyline wrinks (and this arc had quite a few).

edited 13th Nov '16 5:47:16 AM by JonnasN


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