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kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4576: Feb 2nd 2014 at 12:17:52 PM

It contradicts what we're shown though. Raditz also looks far different from them despite being more closely related to Goku so that shoots a hole in that theory.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4577: Feb 2nd 2014 at 12:22:11 PM

Shit, look at ALL OF THE SAIYANS BARDOCK INTERACTS WITH. Statistically speaking, they're probably all lower-class douchebags like him, and they all look different.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4578: Feb 2nd 2014 at 12:49:51 PM

To be honest, I haven’t thought it through that far, but Bardock is a low-class warrior. Although even saying that, almost all [Saiyans] were low-class warriors, and there were only about 10 mid-class warriors. And when you get to the elite warriors, there’s only King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta. Bardock is in the upper ranks as far as low-class warriors go, but he isn’t able to become a mid-class warrior.

Okay, this is just confusing. King Vegeta and kid Vegeta were the only elites? In the manga, Nappa was specified as an elite, while Vegeta was a "super-elite", and Raditz and Goku were low-class. Maybe Toriyama just set everything back, so mid-class = elite class and super-elite class = elite class as a simple change of wording, but still, it's confusing. So I guess that means there were only 10 guys around Nappa's tier, the manga's version of elites and Toriyama's version of mid-class?

Oh, another interesting thing here: Toriyama pretty much went out of his way to avoid actually giving this answer any substance, considering what the question is, but he did say that if you're powerful enough, you'll get promoted, and that Bardock wasn't strong enough to leave the realm of lower class warriors, and become a mid-class. Which would immediately throw out the Bardock special's insistence that he had a power level close to 10,000, since that would make him far stronger than Nappa and probably kid Vegeta as well. His power level was probably closer to 2,000 than anything in light of this, since Nappa was above low-class warriors by a lot and only had a power level of 4,000.

Also, I like the idea that, since Bardock "might have had siblings, " Turles and Goku are cousins.

Or Turles is Goku's uncle.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:09:40 PM by sockpuppet1

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4579: Feb 2nd 2014 at 12:54:50 PM

Sometimes, I think Toriyama has just forgotten his own source material.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4580: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:02:18 PM

He did think that Super Saiyan 2 didn't exist, and that Super Saiyan 3 was actually Super Saiyan 2.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4581: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:05:38 PM

Like, someday someone's gonna ask him as a troll question, "So did Goku have any children besides Gohan and Goten?" And Toriyama, dead serious, will tell him "Oh, yeah, Goku had like fifty kids on Yadrat." And when they look at him, horrified, Toriyama'll just go "What? You get bored when you're floating out in space for a year, and sometimes you just start handing out dickings."

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#4582: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:11:13 PM

It's not like he hasn't admitted that, cut him some slack.

And for that matter, don't insult Chi-Chi. Lord knows she worked hard enough just to have one child with Mr. Marriage Is A Type of Food.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:17:59 PM by FOFD

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4583: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:18:20 PM

@Bardock being too powerful for low-class: When did that happen? If it was after the Zenkai at the end they might not have realized how strong he was and didn't promote him yet.

[up]I will still never understand how that actually happened.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:19:10 PM by Kostya

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4584: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:19:17 PM

[up][up]I wasn't insulting Chi-Chi. I was making a joke about how little Toriyama will remember about his own series.

[up]Maybe, just maaaaaaaybe, Goku isn't the slack-jawed, brain-damaged moron in canon that the Abridged Series says he is.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:20:05 PM by SonOfSharknado

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4586: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:23:22 PM

Goku being dropped on the head as an infant was a plot point, so I doubt it.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4587: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:24:32 PM

Even so, he's not NEARLY as stupid in the canon as the Abridged Goku. Abridged Goku can't even blink and breathe at the same time, and just kinda...HAPPENS to beat people up.

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ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4588: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:25:43 PM

He did invent the muffin button though. Give the man credit.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4589: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:26:19 PM

Son of Sharknado: But...it's Goku. If it wasn't for his marriage to Chi-Chi I'd assume he's just asexual. Heck, he could still be.

He's not exactly an idiot. I'm just pointing out that when it comes to forming connections with people it seems far easier for him to relate to them through fighting.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:26:44 PM by Kostya

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4590: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:27:49 PM

I'm sure Chi-Chi just....told him it was a special kind of sparring.

Heh. There's a funny fan fic in there somewhere.

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Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4591: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:29:59 PM

Chi-chi explaining sex as a form of play fighting is now my head canon. It's hilarious and it makes more sense than anything else.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#4592: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:30:04 PM

Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?

Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.

I think this answer what Goku thinks about his marriage.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#4593: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:34:11 PM

[up](x5) And he survived atmospheric re-entry with it, at a point in the series when doing such a thing under one's own power was pretty uncommon (maybe when Vegeta got hit by the Kamehameha, fuzzy on that one). Abridged Goku needs to patent that Button.

[up](x6)It's not that anyone thinks Canon Goku is over-the-top stupid, but it's fun to speculate on how he was "house-trained" so to speak. He lived in the wilderness for years with some education from Gohan, well, look at how dim Goku was even then. He visited the city a few times, wandered the world, trained in a spiritual palace into his teenage years, and then married Chi-Chi.

Next we see him, he's a father.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:35:36 PM by FOFD

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4594: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:35:15 PM

I'm sticking with "sparring." And when Goku did things right, he was rewarded with more sparring.

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sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4595: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:42:34 PM

@Bardock being too powerful for low-class: When did that happen? If it was after the Zenkai at the end they might not have realized how strong he was and didn't promote him yet.

They didn't even think about promoting him in the special when they read him at nearly 10,000, which contradicts what Toriyama says here. Bardock was technically in the manga, even if he wasn't named and only appeared for one flashback panel, so I guess that 'canon' Bardock is below 4,000, while 'filler' Bardock is nearly 10,000.

Also, given the way Toriyama worded that statement, it's implied he never surpassed, say, Nappa. Since this interview was specifically about Episode of Bardock, and Toriyama said that Bardock "isn't able to" surpass the low class level, Super Saiyan Bardock is possibly even weaker than we all thought! Like, 1st form Freeza would kill him in one punch levels of weak. Like, maybe even lower than Ginyu weak.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4596: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:42:49 PM

So if I'm reading that quote right it sounds like philia is most important to Goku while eros and storge significantly less important.

edit: That's stupid. I guess Chilled was even weaker than first form Frieza if he got killed by Bardock.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:44:04 PM by Kostya

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4597: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:45:59 PM

I think we already knew Chilled was weaker than 1st form Freeza, since even though Bardock was weaker than him before becoming a Super Saiyan, his punch still made Chilled bleed. I highly doubt that the near death boost made Bardock strong enough to do that to someone as strong as 1st form Freeza or even Recoome, even assuming that he was near 10,000 prior to it. But Toriyama here implies he was simply never close to 4,000 in his lifetime at all, not without the Super Saiyan transformation.

edited 2nd Feb '14 1:46:46 PM by sockpuppet1

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4598: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:50:28 PM

There aren't many interpretations of Gohan's conception that aren't horrifically creepy and rapey on Chi-Chi's part.

I mean, worse is the time from then to Gohan's birth as Goku has to learn where babies come from.

Goten's conception would have been weird in another way, what with the world probably ending in ten days and Goku being Super Saiyan all the time.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#4599: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:54:28 PM

The Bardock special said his power level was "nearing 10,000", or in the dub, "at this rate he'll be stronger than King Vegeta soon!"

That's pretty vague. If your power level moves from 1200 to 2000 you're nearing 10,000, and if your power level is increasing at the rapid rate Bardock's was, you'd be surpassing King Vegeta if you kept up that pace.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4600: Feb 2nd 2014 at 1:55:29 PM

Why is Goku being a Super Saiyan during that weird?


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