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Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#45901: Nov 8th 2016 at 7:47:34 AM

So what's the problem? If a trope has multiple interpretations, an instance doesn't have to fit all of them to qualify.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#45902: Nov 8th 2016 at 8:47:19 AM

Its undergone Trope Decay by covering literally any and all heroic speeches.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#45903: Nov 8th 2016 at 9:31:02 AM

Even if that's true, that's a discussion for the Trope Repair Shop, not this topic.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#45904: Nov 8th 2016 at 9:41:45 AM

I only brought it up because somone expressed a desire for Goku and Vegeta not to give Zamasu a "World of Cardboard" Speech.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#45905: Nov 8th 2016 at 11:44:27 AM

Huh, you know it's the most obvious fanboy argument fodder, but looking through the net, I haven't seen a Broly vs Black throwdown yet. Which is pretty odd.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#45906: Nov 8th 2016 at 1:42:23 PM

That can't be right, I've actually been rescued once or twice by the AI when an enemy is attacking me and I've seen the AI swoop in when I'm in a teleport dodge war with the enemy - which requires the enemy to be locked onto me in order to work.

Incidentally, just because some people misuse a trope doesn't mean the trope itself is worthless - it just means that some cleanup and clarification is needed.

"World of Cardboard" Speech should be very simple. It's the hero going "Usually, I hold back, but I won't now, I'll use my full power to break your face". The "World of Cardboard" Speech is exactly what it sounds like - the hero saying that usually they need to hold back because everyone around them is so much weaker than them, but they'll make an exception this one time for an enemy that can actually survive that.

In this case, I do not want Vegetto doing a "World of Cardboard" Speech. What I want is Vegetto basically going "And you know the best part? I'm not even using a quarter of my power", because Vegetto's entire schtick is that he's a Showy Invincible Hero. He defeated Majin Buu using the first form of the Super Saiyan transformation in the manga and kicked Buu around like he was a beach ball in base state in the anime.

That's the joke.

Also, the fact that he's showing up in Super means that we might actually see him in Xenoverse 2 . It should be easy - just give him SSJGSSJ hair.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#45907: Nov 8th 2016 at 1:47:16 PM

It depends on how far into the DLC Packs Black goes. I mean there's always a good chance cause Super Trunks has SSJ 2, Final Flash and Galick Gun, so DIMPS had to have known about that far into Super.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#45908: Nov 8th 2016 at 1:54:19 PM

Even if they didn't, I'm not sure it would take them too long to jury rig SSJGSSJ Vegetto into the game, considering the only change from the normal Vegetto is the different hair, and that shouldn't be too difficult to do.

Of course, I'd much prefer if they gave him super souped up versions of his original supers instead of giving him those again... and I can do with a Super God Final Kamehameha or something equally silly too.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#45909: Nov 8th 2016 at 5:59:21 PM

Is it me or is Fusion Zamasu' voice Fridge Brilliance? It's a modified Zamasu, which makes sense when you consider that both his components are essentially the same person. All these alternate timelines used to be one in the same until age 763, meaning that the two Zamasu were the same person for only a few decades of their millennia of life. Explains why they're almost identical in personality too, in contrast to Trunks

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#45910: Nov 8th 2016 at 6:36:52 PM

DIMPS did not know about Ressurrection F originally but were able to bring the new forms in for their final pack.

I would expect by the final pack we can get Vegetto and Zamasu. With four packs, I'm not sure what else they have planned though. Unless they space them really far apart, they may not have time for Super to give them more to work with.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#45912: Nov 8th 2016 at 9:15:20 PM

I guess it's definitely clear that Next Episode Preview wasn't just a mistake by Toei. They really DID go there.

What did you guys think of that, anyway? How the NEP spoiled everything, but not the dialogue or the previews anywhere else? It's still so weird.

edited 8th Nov '16 9:15:37 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#45913: Nov 8th 2016 at 10:40:15 PM

Yeah, world of cardboard speech was the hero not being able to win because they have to hold back and then realizing the need to hold back is gone.

Trope Decay set in when someone added that it could be overcoming a mental block. This lead to examples like Hercules(Marvel Comics) acknowledging to his brother Ares that he has always been a screw up while Ares taunts him about it while beating him up and then beating up Ares anyway. Okay, fine, but was Hercules ever holding back or was that just Shut Up, Hannibal!? Thousands of such examples, I didn't bother to go through all of them.

Still, Vegito giving a world of cardboard speech, what that trope was actually proposed as, would be highly unlikely. Goku giving such a speech would be weird.

Yeah, Goku does hold back and so did Vegito, but Goku holds back either because he wants to have a more interesting fight(I don't want to win yet), wants to save some strength in case something unexpected happens(better be careful), or both(this could be dangerous but it's so much fun). The trope naming Superman scene, aand a preceding Spider-man scene that probably inspired it, was about the hero's Thou Shalt Not Kill rule and being afraid their super strength would cause them to violate it until Darkseid/Ox made them realize they didn't have to be afraid of killing this one...and it was more effective in the Spider-man example, because he actually beat Ox, with one punch, after his futile attempt at hiding from him, but Superman gave an impassioned speech about Heroic Resolve so whatever. Maybe the speech part is the real source of misuse?

Similarly, Vegito held back to not kill someone but those were not everyone he ever fought but his sons who had to be removed from a target. There was no realization a need to cut loose simultaneously aligned with the need to hold back being lifted as he had it all planned out from the get go and most importantly, no speech. The best case you can make is that if the anime version fought in base, then turning super was I Am Not Left-Handed. Goku does I am not left handed a lot too, world of cardboard speech, not so much. Recognizing that is, in fact, a step towards fixing misuse, whether you want to take it to the repair shop again or not. Last time I saw it there was inconclusive.

Incidentally, I think Frost did give Goku something that could appropriately be called a world of cardboard speech.

Buldogue's lawyer
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#45914: Nov 9th 2016 at 2:49:13 AM

I really enjoy Masako's videos.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#45915: Nov 9th 2016 at 5:00:34 AM

Dragon Ball Super Chapter 17 is out.

Kibito being suspected of being Goku Black is hilarious.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#45916: Nov 9th 2016 at 8:32:55 AM

Yes. Yes it was.evil grin

The video game race was great too. Especially Beerus acting exactly as you'd expect.

[up][up]

That sounds about right I admit. I think that argument has even been used against me when I complain about 18 not fighting anymore.

I do still wish she'd throw the occasional punch though. It wouldn't hurt.....except for the dude she's punching that is.tongue

I never got the impression she had any ill will towards Goku though. True, they don't interact much, but it seems she's just kinda uninterested in him as a whole.

edited 9th Nov '16 8:46:12 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#45917: Nov 9th 2016 at 9:48:52 AM

She did offer to go out and help against Gold Frieza in Krillin's place, but he insisted. So it's more him having a bit of a Stay in the Kitchen mentality (even if it comes from a good place of wanting to keep his wife from harm).

I remember that being a bit of an issue, though. Everyone was so scared about Frieza coming back when they have a ton of people who could smack around Final Frieza without breaking a sweat, even if Goku and Vegeta were offworld: Gohan (before we found out that he was out of shape), Piccolo, Android 18, Goten, Trunks, Buu, Tien if he's trained up enough by now (he was strong enough to slow Cell 2 down at one point), even Android 17 if they kept him in the loop ever.

edited 9th Nov '16 9:51:38 AM by Ogodei

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#45918: Nov 9th 2016 at 10:00:53 AM

Not really.

The thing is, Frieza had powered up to the point where he was still stronger then everyone, despite most of them becoming stronger then he was on Namek.

Buu was inconveniently asleep (that's starting to be a fucking thing with him I noticed), which means he couldn't just candy beam the hell out of Frieza at all, and he was now stronger then all the guys you just mentioned. Even if 17 and 18 can't get tired, if Frieza kills them in one second, it doesn't matter.

And Gohan got surpassed and nerfed in order to keep him from being a factor.

One Strip! One Strip!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#45919: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:15:59 AM

Just give Piccolo (and maybe Gohan) divine ki by proxy, and call it a day. Goku and Vegeta are entertaining to watch, but JUST Goku and Vegeta, with only Freeza of all people getting to their power tier...

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#45920: Nov 9th 2016 at 12:48:28 PM

That's not gonna happen. Toriyama is back pedalling incredibly hard on how strong Gohan is. It's clear he no longer wants him on the front lines.

I suppose that's why he's both making Goku and Vegeta stronger and nerfing him. If he was still as strong as he was supposed to be, then he'd still be stronger then most of what gets thrown at the group....at least until you remember that they can just make everyone else even stronger, which is what happened anyway, first with Buu, then with Beerus, and then with Frieza coming back.

As for Piccolo, outside of training, the only way for him to grow stronger is to find more warrior type nameks to fuse with, and I don't know if there are any left.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#45921: Nov 9th 2016 at 12:57:29 PM

Piccolo could very well make more Warrior caste Namekians. After all, they're a monogender race that reproduces asexually - there's literally nothing preventing Piccolo from spawning more now since he refused with Kami and all.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#45922: Nov 9th 2016 at 12:59:36 PM

Piccolo's not really the family kind of guy.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#45923: Nov 9th 2016 at 1:00:33 PM

Barring his Father / Son relationship with Gohan, and his being a surrogate Grand-Dad to Pan.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#45924: Nov 9th 2016 at 1:04:07 PM

He wouldn't need to keep them around for long, though, if he's just gonna fuse with his spawn.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#45925: Nov 9th 2016 at 1:07:30 PM

Well, that was mostly a joke, and that would also be kind of a shitty thing to do. Creating them, and then ending their existence just to make himself stronger. Like, why would they just go along with that, hypothetically?


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