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SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4476: Feb 1st 2014 at 2:52:41 PM

And don't forget Bills>>>>>Goku. Rendering every conflict in the entire series hilariously miniscule, as Bills could have been woken up at any time and crushed them all.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4478: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:00:08 PM

He's Egyptian. For....some....reason.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4479: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:04:05 PM

Wasn't there a thing about the Gods of Destruction and the Gods of Creation? With those ones being the Kais?

And I like sorta alternative designs.

edited 1st Feb '14 3:04:21 PM by unnoun

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#4480: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:08:39 PM

I don't think you guys understand. This is the first female Super Saiyan 3.

MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#4481: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:14:03 PM

I'm pretty zigzagged on Toriyama's excuse for the lack of female saiyans.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#4482: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:16:19 PM

Actually, Toriyama stated in an interview that it's quite possible that Goku could surpass Beerus one day if he continued training, since Goku kept God's power in him even after Beerus and Whis left.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4483: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:22:08 PM

[up][up],[up][up][up]

Meanwhile, Pan gets...nothing in the way of powerups. Toriyama, whyyyyy?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#4484: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:24:43 PM

Because of Dragon Ball GT that's why.

No forgiveness, even if it's not canon.

One Strip! One Strip!
ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4485: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:32:42 PM

They could have used the Z version. I mean, if Bardock, who's dead can get a power up, then I don't really see the problem.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4486: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:39:31 PM

Isn't Super Saiyan multiplicative anyway? So if someone on the weaker side in their base form got a boost of times 50, it wouldn't make as much of a difference?

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4487: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:46:59 PM

Who is this Bills you speak of? Are you talking about Beers/Beerus?

Actually, Toriyama stated in an interview that it's quite possible that Goku could surpass Beerus one day if he continued training, since Goku kept God's power in him even after Beerus and Whis left.

Which is effin' stupid and yet another reason this film doesn't chronologically fit into the main story line (unlike Movies 5, 9, and 13, and to a lesser extent Movie 1).

No forgiveness, even if it's not canon.

It's as canon as everything else, as a result of Dragon Ball having no official canon.

Isn't Super Saiyan multiplicative anyway? So if someone on the weaker side in their base form got a boost of times 50, it wouldn't make as much of a difference?

Yep. Pan was incredibly powerful from what little we saw of her though, so her SS would also be incredibly powerful. Bardock, on the other hand, was only a little under 10,000 when he was sent back in time; he may have become stronger than that from a near death boost, but it can't possibly have been by that much. So take his level, which is probably a small amount over 10,000 and multiply by fifty to get his SS level.

By contrast, Goku's base form when he first went Super Saiyan was 3 million. Every saiyan in the Buu arc is many times stronger than Namek Goku, and even Namek Goku can absolutely crush Super Saiyan Bardock in base, since he'd only be 500,000-1,000,000.

edited 1st Feb '14 4:03:39 PM by sockpuppet1

ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#4488: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:47:07 PM

It's the thought that counts.[lol]

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4489: Feb 1st 2014 at 3:58:12 PM

[up][up]Aren't movies 2 and 3 also capable of fitting into the story?

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4490: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:00:12 PM

That's why, when someone did Super Saiyan Bardock vs. Frieza, Frieza went to second form and murdered him.

My various fanfics.
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4491: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:02:59 PM

[up][up]Not at all. Those are some of the least workable ones.

In Movie 2, Goku knows the kaio-ken, but only up to x4, and Piccolo is still around despite there being a flashback in the movie of Nappa killing him. Completely unfitting anywhere in the timeline.

In Movie 3, everyone is alive, yet Goku knows kaio-ken x10 (but not Super Saiyan) and Piccolo is an ally. Goku is also given a power level of 30,000, while Gohan is 10,000 and Piccolo is 18,000. There is no point in the series where this could happen at all.

[up] A likely outcome.

edited 1st Feb '14 4:03:18 PM by sockpuppet1

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4492: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:05:48 PM

I haven't watched them in a while so I forgot those parts. I remember hearing that the best spot to put them is in the time skip between Trunk's arrival and the Androids popping up but it wouldn't make sense with those numbers. They'd probably fit better if the Frieza saga had been finished by then. I believe some of the inconsistencies came from the writers not knowing what power levels and such would be after that.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#4493: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:08:35 PM

Actually, I read somewhere that the power level minimum needed to become a Super Saiyan is 100,000, so Bardock would of had a power level of around 5 million when he kicked Chilled's ass.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4494: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:08:36 PM

Really, it's best to picture it in divergent timeline.

wild mass guessIn the Garlic Jr. Timeline, they killed Vegeta and discovered some bullshit method of resurrecting Piccolo that allowed them to resurrect everyone else, and Frieza isn't a thing yet.

In the Tree of Might Timeline, Goku got home in time to stop Nappa from murdering EVERYONE, has a greater understanding of Kaioken, and they hadn't yet traveled to Namek.wild mass guess

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4495: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:10:11 PM

For those interested in information on Gine, Goku's mother.

The lack of Trunks' having a tail is brought up when the baby Trunks is first seen. Kuririn notices the lack of a tail and asks Bulma if it was cut off but she doesn't respond.

Also there's Toriyama confirming that they don't have tails in an interview.

Vegeta training Trunks in the early Boo arc was something that only started happening recently, according to Bulma.

[up][up] That's not official though.

edited 1st Feb '14 4:12:15 PM by Saiga

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4496: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:10:33 PM

[up][up][up]Did Toriyama officially state that? I feel like that's a weird distinction to make since Goku was far above that before he became a Super Saiyan.

edit: Wait, wasn't Vegeta in the 200k range before Frieza killed him? Why didn't he transform if that's true?

edited 1st Feb '14 4:11:21 PM by Kostya

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4497: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:11:35 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Nah, it doesn't seem like there was any effort made to fit them at all; basic stuff like Piccolo and Krillin being alive in those films render them impossible to fit anywhere, and the Freeza arc hadn't even been concluded by this point. Then there's just weird stuff, like Piccolo's death against Nappa being referenced in Movie 2, where he's alive, or Movie 4 (another unworkable one) referencing Freeza, indicating the Namek arc must have happened some time in that timeline whereas the Saiyan arc must have happened in Movie 2's as well.

[up][up][up][up] Err, that's never stated or implied anywhere. Unless you're mistaking a fan work for an official one.

[up][up][up] Actually, officially Garlic Jr's movie is set before Raditz's arrival, in the main timeline. There's just one small plothole going against that.

[up] Going by his feats (pushing Gohan out of the way of an attack Piccolo couldn't see) and his confidence in fighting Freeza's final form after sensing the ki of his previous three forms, Vegeta was around 2 million or a little bit higher when Freeza killed him. However, power isn't all it takes to become a Super Saiyan. When Goku explains that he became a Super Saiyan because of his tranquil heart being awakened by intense rage, Freeza chuckles and remarks that Vegeta didn't have a tranquil heart, and so wasn't able to become a Super Saiyan no matter how hard he tried.

edited 1st Feb '14 4:14:44 PM by sockpuppet1

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#4498: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:14:11 PM

Then...how could Goku possibly know Kaoiken?

Gaaaaaaagh.

My various fanfics.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#4499: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:14:55 PM

sockpuppet: I know Frieza wasn't beaten by then. I'm saying that it's possible the writers intended the events of these movies to happen after it but didn't know what the status quo would be so they just made stuff up. Of course alternate timelines make far more sense for most of them. Even some of the movies that explicitly define when they take place(I'm looking at you 6-8) don't make sense in that spot.

edit: Damn, I didn't think Vegeta got that powerful. Too bad he didn't know the Kaioken. If both he and Goku did a X20 together they might have had a shot without going Super Saiyan.

edited 1st Feb '14 4:16:29 PM by Kostya

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4500: Feb 1st 2014 at 4:15:03 PM

...Wait, didn't Garlic Jr. come back in the anime once?


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