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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44951: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:49:51 PM

That...probably would stop being effective at this point honestly, mostly because Toriyama probably has forgotten it's even a thing.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44952: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:52:16 PM

Kakarrot didn't have a technique like that, he just said it wouldn't work on him...

What's up with that?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44953: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:52:34 PM

That's a thing?

So Tien can neutralize Kaio-ken x10 SSB Goku's Kamehameha?

edited 15th Oct '16 9:54:45 PM by hardcorefakes

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44954: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:54:12 PM

Actually, what Tien was using was just his version of a Kiai, called Kamehameha Hane Kaeshi. So yeah, probably wouldn't work anymore. He also used pretty much the same thing against Cyborg Tao to dispel his weaker ki attacks, so yeah, probably not really specific to just the Kamehameha.

edited 15th Oct '16 9:55:38 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44955: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:54:46 PM

It's a pretty pointless thing too, since it's so situational...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44956: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:54:48 PM

It's iffy whether it would work on Goku when he's using god Ki, but so long as it's the Kamehameha and not a Kamehameha-like technique, there's no reason why it wouldn't work.

Whether it be Kid Goku's Kamehameha or Super Perfect Cell's Perfect Kamehameha, it does not matter how strong it actually is, it can never hit Tien, it will just flow around him.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44957: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:57:16 PM

Again, it's just a Kiai, and even then, the only times he's used it to dispel ki attacks was against opponents that were weaker than him, like Yamcha and Cyborg Tao. It was probably just him boasting when he said he could reflect any Kamehameha regardless of strength.

edited 15th Oct '16 9:57:27 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44958: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:58:19 PM

[up][up][up]That is pretty specific.

Maybe Vegeta should try to learn that technique, for another potential battle between him and Goku.

edited 15th Oct '16 9:58:32 PM by hardcorefakes

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44959: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:58:42 PM

[up][up]But if he was right, it'd be hilarious that he could only really stop strong Kamehamehas and nothing else.

edited 15th Oct '16 9:59:08 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44960: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:01:00 PM

[up][up]Would do very little good. Contrary to popular belief, the Kamehameha is not Goku's only move.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44961: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:03:22 PM

It's the only distinctive beam attack he has...not just some generic yellow one.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#44962: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:06:04 PM

Muten Roshi specifically said his wave was what was ineffective, which is why Goku didn't bother with it and just headbutted him, Goku himself had already seen it harmlessly cascade around Tao like water. Before, when it had failed, it at least hit target. It either stopped there or bounced away.

But let's say I'm completely, totally wrong about it last king of Hawaii. That still leaves points about the KI Controll Tri Beam cannon and the demon clan ki left out, which clearly show differences that can't be accounted for by color or density.

Buldogue's lawyer
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44963: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:07:37 PM

Fortunately, he has fists and knows how to use them.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44964: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:10:06 PM

[up][up][up]It's pretty much his most iconic attack, and his go-to move.

Of course, he could then resort to any number of generic blasts (which hearkens back to how the differences are arbitrary). But how effective would those be against Vegeta?

And Vegeta isn't letting Goku charge up the Spirit Bomb anytime soon, so that's out of the question.

edited 15th Oct '16 10:10:17 PM by hardcorefakes

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44965: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:12:18 PM

The Kikoho's fuelled by Genki, the same stuff that's in the Spirit Bomb, which is why it's life-threatening. Taopaipai being immune to the Kamehameha can just be explained that he was stronger, and Tenshinhan just has a very specific technique, in the form of a Ki enhanced Kiai, designed to block Ki blasts.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44966: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:15:20 PM

He was stronger and just blocked it...seeing how it damaged his clothes.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#44967: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:21:12 PM

Genki Dama doesn't kill the user, though it can threaten to do those it draw from.

But that in of itself is missing another point. Energy, bravery and right mindedness. Three parts plus the natural paths of energy throughout the universe make up Qi. Genki is energy, genki is a component of all ki, so saying the energy coin and control cannon's lethal risks as opposed to just running out on beam spams doesn't hold up. There's at least three dimensions to it, and you're kind of assuming there are only two, contrary to the evidence of more.

Buldogue's lawyer
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#44968: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:27:07 PM

So, today's episode.

I'm not sure if Trunks' new form wears off per-se, but he does lose the Broly-eyed look within a few minutes, and seems to revert to regular SSJ 2 for a bit, before "casting" the new transformation again to hold time line against Black and Zamasu.

I think the best part of the episode for me was Gohan's growng Oh, Crap! face when Goku, Bulma, and Vegeta reveal what's REALLY going on with Future Trunks' visit, and how he never bothered to ask Trunks about it.

Oh, and the re-drew the King Piccolo vs. Roshi match where the latter tried to use the Mafuba! That was a surprise.

Poor Turtle, poor POOR Turtle, he had to be Goku's practice buddy for the Mafuba training.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#44969: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:38:29 PM

If ni means two, why is the two star ball called ushinchu?

Buldogue's lawyer
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44970: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:41:56 PM

[up][up][up][up]Nope, not enough.

When Raditz, with a difference significantly bigger than Tao Pai Pai vs Goku, blocked it, his hand was burned.

Tao Pai Pai was simply unharmed by the Kamehameha.

It makes perfect sense that Tao Pai Pai and Tien have a technique geared specifically towards avoiding damage from the Kamehameha regardless of how strong it is. They were both trained by a man with a very long lived grudge against Roshi and who is just as experienced and knowledgeable as Roshi is. It's only natural that he'd develop an ability to counter Roshi's trump card.

@hardcorefakes

Your post reveals a startling lack of knowledge about Dragon Ball.

While the Kamehameha is Goku's signature move, it's not his only move, as you seem convinced it is. There's this very important, very useful thing that Goku fights primarily with.

It's called his body, because 99% of the time, Goku is not, in fact, throwing ki blasts at people. He mostly fights hand to hand. The idea that Dragon Ball is nothing but ki blasts is perpetrated by people who have never actually read the manga or watched the anime, which makes it quite evident that most of every fight is spent mixing up ki blasts and physical combos.

edited 15th Oct '16 10:45:32 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44971: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:43:23 PM

Again, it's just a Kiai. Him boasting about it is no different than any of the other boasting people have done throughout this entire series.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44972: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:45:06 PM

Yeah, Tao Pai Pai has no noted immunity to the Kamehameha and his clothes still got wrecked. That just demonstration how greatly he outclassed Goku at the time.

[up][up] Check the manga. Raditz' hand wasn't damaged in any way. Moreover, Goku and Piccolo were able to multiply their battle powers through their techniques at this point which made them a threat to Raditz.

Tenshinhan's immunity is also kind of dubious because it comes at a time in the series where there were no outrageously strong Kamehamehas being thrown around. Knocking back Yamcha's happened when he was already stronger than Yamcha.

Then Goku and him were roughly equal in their battle, being able to deflect the Kamehameha with a special technique isn't a huge feat. It's never been tested against a Kamehameha that greatly outclasses Tenshinhan's own power, and the comment was made before we knew of anyone that greatly outclassed Tenshinhan.

The comment in particular only had Kame Sen'nin saying that no matter the size of the Kamehameha (from Goku) it won't effect him. Later on the correlation between Ki blast size and power is dropped, though.

Plus, Tsuru Sen'nin has no immunity to the Kamehameha.

I mostly agree with Pushover's point about ki attacks mostly being the same thing. They're not ALL the same, but I would say the "special" ki techniques are heavily outweighed by the generic stuff.

However, the Kikoho isn't noted to use Genki - it just uses so much ki that it can potentially kill the user. That means a character could potentially kill themselves if they fired a Kamehameha with literally everything they had left. Ki is lifeforce! Hell, that's how many suicide techniques work. And then you've got stuff like Piccolo Daimao shortening his life span when he uses his full power.

The main point, though, is that most ki beams are completely interchangeable. Vegeta even notes how similar the Kamehameha is to his Galick Gun.

So Super showing Trunks using the Galick Gun or the Final Flash or Masenko doesn't mean much at all. We're not told of any differences between them, the Kamehameha is the only one to actually get some repetition in the manga, and even nameless ki beams seem to be just as effective. There is no real advantage to doing it in particular ways that we see, the idea of the characters having their own techniques that they rely on is mostly a Toei/fan invention, stuff like Kuririn relying on the Kienzan or Ten relying on the Kikoho being an outlier.

While early Dragon Ball tried to play up the ki techniques as specific moves that required practice to learn or develop, later arcs show the characters seemingly able to prepare such techniques as a fly simply by shaping their ki the way they want to use it. Which is a fairly logical evolution in skill from several characters being able to copy attacks after seeing them once.

So I feel, this far into the series, techniques don't have much importance when the characters can control their ki enough to use it any way they want.

edited 15th Oct '16 10:50:19 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44973: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:48:46 PM

This is why Saiga is the Pope. grin

Also, I just thought that the Neo Tri-Beam was fueled by the very life-force of the user's existence, which is how it would be strong enough to let Tien push Semi-Perfect Cell with it to any degree, despite the massive divide in power between them.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44974: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:52:02 PM

[up]x4

Nice straw man there, but I never said that was Goku's only technique, or that was the only move he used. Nor did I argue it.

Where are you even getting that from? All I said was that it was his go-to move (which it is), so the rest of your post is just irrelevant. He has fists and punches people...okay? Cool? I never argued against that. I wasn't even discussing that.

You just extrapolated a whole lot of assumptions out of nowhere.

And the simple fact of the matter is, most enemies in Dragon Ball are defeated using ki attacks.

[up][up]Even Saiga says they're mostly the same. kek.

edited 15th Oct '16 10:55:46 PM by hardcorefakes

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44975: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:52:48 PM

It depends on translation and the source you're talking about. Here are some quotes translated from the manga by Herms, a Kanzenshuu user who goes for the most literally accurate possible translations:

Chapter: 132, P14.1
Kame-sennin: “It’s a technique that holds outrageous destructive power…many levels above even the Kamehameha…However, because of this extreme terribleness, it fiercely depletes one’s own energy, and they say people have even died from it…Even if one doesn’t die, one’s lifespan will undoubtedly be shortened…”

Chapter: 133, P3.4-5, P4.3
Context: Tenshinhan charges the Kikoho.
Kame-sennin: “He’s concentrated the ki throughout his body into his hands.”
Goku: “Th-this is an incredible ki!”
Tenshinhan: “If I use up all my ki here, then I’ll be completely out of strength. I’ve got to save a certain amount of ki.”

So the first one just says "energy" and the second specifies that he is using ki for the attack.

edited 15th Oct '16 10:53:53 PM by Saiga


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