TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44451: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:28:28 PM

I did give you an opportunity to rephrase your comment to clear up any potential miscommunication.

edited 3rd Oct '16 5:35:00 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44452: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:43:05 PM

I don't see how hard it is to misinterpret "People that I've talked to" why would I be referring to people in this thread?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44453: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:45:23 PM

Because you talk to us in here?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#44454: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:47:10 PM

America got Dragon Ball Z separated from Dragon Ball, and the latter failed to match the former's popularity. The rest of the world pretty much got Z as a continuation of Dragon Ball.

Also, Pushover, chill.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44455: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:51:42 PM

[up] This guy gets it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44456: Oct 3rd 2016 at 5:53:49 PM

If you want to call the second half of the manga the "Z" section, you're free too. Same goes for not separating the halves of the Dragon Ball manga with "Z".

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44457: Oct 3rd 2016 at 6:05:00 PM

I sometimes forget that there was no separation in the manga.

You have to admit, between Z being mostly first in America (though the very first Arc of Dragonball did air on television first before someone finally went back and got the full series), it's easy to make the mistake.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44458: Oct 3rd 2016 at 6:13:01 PM

Dragon Ball in the USA was shown weirdly.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44459: Oct 3rd 2016 at 6:28:31 PM

Well, Goku did have to show us that he and his friends were going to save the day.

Which they actually didn't do if you recall. More like they spoiled Pilaf's day, and only barely.

One Strip! One Strip!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#44460: Oct 3rd 2016 at 6:52:36 PM

I still think the Saiyan Saga was the best arc and the final battle is great because it takes everyone to take Vegeta down.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44461: Oct 3rd 2016 at 6:59:25 PM

True.

Saiyan Saga also predates the massive Power Creep, Power Seep.

Sure, they were powerful, and Vegeta could destroy a planet, but it took effort to do so.

Edit: Also, when I brought up the why didn't Goku train in the afterlife and then come back via Baba's one day on Earth ability, Rinsankajugin stated that she probably just died.

I accepted that at the time, but it occurs to me that with her prediction abilities, and her ability to move back and forth through the afterlife (she's actually physically there when she brings back both Goku and Vegeta) that avoiding death via Androids should have been pretty easy.

And the future revealed that Yajirobe is still alive (even if via last second Senzu), so Baba stands a pretty good chance of being alive, so my previous statement about why neither Goku nor Piccolo took advantage of both the opportunity to train in the Afterlife and her ability to restore people to life still stands.

And I dare any one (including Popes) to counter me!

Stop Handsome Rob....IF YOU DARE!

edited 3rd Oct '16 7:58:19 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#44462: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:43:17 PM

My god, I tried putting this on WMG, but the page is not working for me.

I have this theory on Black Goku.

wild mass guess Goku Black is losing sight of his original personality wild mass guess

When Zamasu took over Goku body, he started to gain Goku personality traits more and more with each day. This explains why he is so interested in gaining more power, compared with Zamasu, That Zamasu is slowly disappearing, only leaving a Evil Goku in sight. Sorta like Piccolo when he fused with somebody, only more of an sicko twist in it.

edited 3rd Oct '16 10:45:57 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44463: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:49:02 PM

That's not even slightly similar to what Piccoro did...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#44464: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:31:18 PM

I said sorta, not exactly the same.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44465: Oct 4th 2016 at 1:29:25 AM

I don't think I will ever understand how people consider the Saiyan 'event' as a full-blown 'Saga'. I mean, it was really short, and mostly served to set up Namek and the Freeza Saga. I consider it to be the first third of the Freeza Saga, not a whole Saga in its own right.

I guess it comes from reading the manga, where the whole Saiyan arc took up only 4 volumes (49 chapters), compared to the Freeza Saga's collective 11 (135 chapters, including the Saiyan arc), the Cell Saga's 8 volumes (91 chapters), with the Buu Saga at 7 volumes (97 chapters, due to the volumes getting longer).

To contrast, the 'Dragon Ball' portion took up 16 volumes, with slightly less than 2 volumes taking up the initial search for the Dragon Balls (22 chapters), 2 and a half volumes dedicated to training with Roshi and the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai (31 chapters), 3 and a half volumes for the Red Ribbon Army (45 chapters), 1 volume for Baba's thing (15 chapters), about 2 volumes for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai (24 chapters), about two volumes for Demon King Piccolo (26 chapters), and two and a half volumes for training with Mr. Popo and Kami and the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai (33 chapters).

I just consider the first third of Dragon Ball to be three main Sagas, each one ending with one of the three tournaments.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#44466: Oct 4th 2016 at 1:43:59 AM

It had a beginning, middle and end. Character arcs were introduced for Piccolo and Gohan and led to their logical conclusions. A threat was introduced, they trained for the threat, and then they beat the threat. Sounds like an arc to me.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44467: Oct 4th 2016 at 1:57:19 AM

I can buy it as an arc, but not a saga. It feels like just the first third of the Freeza Saga.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#44468: Oct 4th 2016 at 2:16:07 AM

It's a saga...just like the Android stuff is before Cell arrives.

Doesn't need to make sense, as it wouldn't.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#44469: Oct 4th 2016 at 3:01:45 AM

I don't think I will ever understand how people consider the Saiyan 'event' as a full-blown 'Saga.'

Because alliteration.

Seriously though, it's it's own self-contained storyline with it's own separate rise and fall, so while I personally just lump them all together into one big Freeza arc I can understand why people would separate them.

It's not like the Androids, where Cell's story appears in the middle of 17 and 18's party before their story can really go anywhere - the beginnings of the Freeza saga explicitly happen because the heroes want to reverse the effects of the already concluded Vegeta storyline - it's more "immediate sequel" than "one story / two parts," and there's a lot of Arc Welding there. That's why the Namek stuff builds the way it does.

edited 4th Oct '16 3:04:34 AM by KnownUnknown

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#44470: Oct 4th 2016 at 3:02:54 AM

I've kind of stopped thinking of them as sagas in the first place. They're just really long arcs, to be honest. Sometimes artificially-lengthened arcs, but still arcs.

Also, I don't really understand why you'd split up the Androids and Cell. While Cell kind of comes out of nowhere, he's very much still related to the Androids business. And there's a nice Bookends with both the beginning and the end of the arc relating to Future Trunks.

edited 4th Oct '16 3:04:32 AM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44471: Oct 4th 2016 at 3:44:32 AM

Just because it doesn't go through the same arc fatigue as Namek - Boo doesn't mean it isn't a long arc in itself. Four volumes is a lot of material, especially compared to the arcs that come before it.

Saiyan arc has a very clear beginning and end, and calling it part of the Namek arc does both arcs a disservice. Besides, it is incredibly clear that the Saiyan arc was not written with the Namek arc in mind, given all the retcons.

And combining the Dragon Ball arcs that way doesn't make sense. The first arc and the 21st Budokai have nothing to do with each other. Ditto for RRA and 22nd Budokai. Furthermore, the 22nd Budokai leads directly into the Piccolo Daimao arc, why would you decide to separate them when everything else gets combined? It's very arbitrary.

I agree with Mad Skillz, Saiyan arc best arc. Followed by... maybe the Daimao arc. Then some order of Namek / Android / Boo.

Second, literally everyone I've ever heard the opinion on this topic has said that the series before Raditz was better than the series after Raditz

Sounds like you don't have a very wide exposure to other opinions then, because as pointed out, "Z"is more popular worldwide. The internet fanbase only presents a vocal minority of fans, even then, those opinions will differ depending on where you go. I've been in several different Dragon Ball communities, and the majority preference is different in each one.

[up][up] They're welded together about as much as duct tape could manage

edit: Oh, in terms of Sagas? that's just Funi's influence speaking, probably. Dragon Ball is a saga. A handful of arcs doesn't make a saga.

edited 4th Oct '16 3:46:19 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44472: Oct 4th 2016 at 3:57:27 AM

Hunting for the Dragon Balls leads into the 21st in that Roshi is introduced, shows his incredible power, and Goku makes a promise to train with him after they're done searching. Similarly, the Red Ribbon army introduces Taopaipai, who is the biggest physical threat in that arc by a landslide, which leads into the 22nd, where his brother and his brother's students are introduced, one of whom explicitly wants revenge for Taopaipai. In this context, Krillin's death feels more like a cliffhanger for the next saga with Piccolo and Piccolo Jr.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44473: Oct 4th 2016 at 4:02:18 AM

There is definitely more of a connection with Kuririn's death than there is with the other things you mentioned.

Roshi recurring doesn't make it a saga. Otherwise the first arc is part of the 23rd Budokai saga, because it introduced Chichi.

Tao Pai Pai's connection to the Crane School was an easy way to establish new antagonists, it wasn't really that important. Furthermore, Tao Pai Pai is not the biggest part of the Red Ribbon arc, despite how memorable he is. He's a freelance assassin.

Those are really a stretch. Square peg, round holes.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#44474: Oct 4th 2016 at 4:08:07 AM

It just fits better to me to have Dragon Ball separated into 6 neat little Sagas, the first three ending with Tournaments, and the last three ending with climactic battles against huge villains who were a physical threat for at least the latter half of their respective arcs, with Piccolo Jr. being the transitional point.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#44475: Oct 4th 2016 at 4:14:43 AM

Okay, but those distinctions don't make sense, those not what sagas mean, and I can't for the life of me see what the problem is with going with the official, and much clearer, arcs.

Especially given that we know most of those arcs were written without the next arc in mind.


Total posts: 130,800
Top