They gave him Super Saiyan 3 and 4 for whatever reason etc etc, and then you have fan projects like Dragon Ball Multiverse wanking him even more.
Its not hard to understand why he's not particularly well-liked for basically embodying everything terrible about DB fanon in general.
And yet people like Goku Black?
The inexplicable, maybe half-Kaioshin, evil palette swap of Goku that 13-year olds have been drawing on deviantart for years?
I mean at least Turles had a gimmick and his name was its own pun. Not just "Goku but with a color at the end of his name to signify that he's evil." And he actually looked like a dark reflection of Goku if Goku had never come to Earth.
edited 26th Sep '16 2:53:30 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!But isn't the origin of the "lawl, Goku's a bad father" meme because Goku specifically pushed Gohan to train and fight Cell rather than just let him be a normal kid? note By that note, isn't it a good thing that Gohan has focused on being a family man instead of dedicating himself to be the Protector Earth?
Gohan not wanting to fight is not something Goku ever witnessed. Gohan was determined to go to Namek, he was determined to help against the Androids, and he was determined to be able to help against Cell, then all of a sudden nope.
That doesn't make just blindsiding him with it okay and Gohan's actually thoughts on the matter made sense, but acting as if Gohan being unwilling or unprepared to fight is a thing Goku should be aware of doesn't make much sense.
edited 26th Sep '16 2:57:06 PM by LSBK
It honestly just doesn't make much sense to me; so Gohan is determined to go to another planet for Piccolo and fight two deadly Androids, but he won't fight Cell?
Wuuuh? I mean if he was simply afraid of losing control of his strength, fine but he outright says he doesn't like fighting which was barely established beforehand.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.![]()
I'm pretty sure we're supposed to assume that, hence the mistake.
I mean, wanting to do all those things doesn't imply he likes fighting, so much as he wants to help people close to him/keep people from dying. Which still doesn't make him refusing to fight Cell make sense but...
edited 26th Sep '16 3:03:47 PM by LSBK
On the Broly vs Black conversation, Broly probably would've been better received if he - like Black - had an arc of episodes centered around him rather than a couple movies. The problem with Broly isn't all those traits, it's that he doesn't do anything but show up and be stronger than everyone else - it's a problem nearly all the DBZ movies have that they're mostly just set-ups for long fights with loose justifications and flat villains. Meanwhile, they're actually doing set ups with Black, he has a decent antagonism with the characters who set out to fight him, and the wayhe really does have an evil version of Goku's personality traits help. And they can do all of that because he's an arc villain with a lot of scenes dedicated to him.
And even so, Black didn't really start to get interesting until the plot started thickening with Zamasu. If Battle of Gods were all there was to Beerus (well, and also if he weren't the big villain of DBZ's revival, which has less to do with him as a character) he'd probably not be that well received either, because he has a lot of those problems as well (though he also has more of a personality).
I like Broly, and Bio-Broly is one of my favorite DBZ movies despite being the one everyone hates, but I can definitely see why people criticize him. There's something to having a villain who has nothing to him but being strong and legendary and able to kick ass, as long as the characterization for everyone else backs it up. And they work with DBZ's style, as antagonists in-between more important foes. But it's difficult to deny that he hits a lot of fandom hot buttons.
edited 26th Sep '16 3:08:02 PM by KnownUnknown
I mean, for all the above reasons, Broly is still problematic, but still.
edited 26th Sep '16 4:17:35 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!First, Toriyama did design Broly.
Next, Black doesn't have development yet compared to Zamasu because of the entire mystery of who or what he is. Is he a clone? Another Zamasu from a different timeline possessing Goku's body, a new character altogether, ect. Because of this mystery, you can't develop the character because it will give the mystery away.
Black and Zamasu are pretty good villains. I think making them Knight Templar villains is a stroke of brilliance, since it helps give them a unique personality; all other dragonball villains are plain old evil (Freeza), generally amoral (Beerus) or comedy (Pilaf). Zamasu and Goku Black are the first villains ever in Dragonball to truly have a self-righteous side and delusion of doing the right thing.
Granted the previous villains had a dynamic and enjoyable personality, but Zamasu and Goku Black are still rather unique
As for Broly, yeah it's in part because you can only give so much to a filler antagonist. But one of the main issues is that his hatred of Goku makes little sense, given the backstory we're given. "Goku crying" seems like some sort of parody motivation, and if anything Broly should want to kill Vegeta most of all.
It's hard to remember but Paragus was the Big Bad of the first Broly film.
And Broly was The Heavy / The Dragon.....
You know, until that thing with the tossing him into space and all.
Paraguay PARAGUS (FUCKING AUTO-CORRECT!!!!) probably should have taken his son to a carnival or something....or just not made him murder planets.
Yeah. Especially that second one.
One Strip! One Strip!- The manga is better at plot development, the anime is better at character development.
- 12:38, The Pilaf Gang is disappointing
edited 26th Sep '16 7:32:23 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!The inexplicable, maybe half-Kaioshin, evil palette swap of Goku that 13-year olds have been drawing on deviantart for years? I mean at least Turles had a gimmick and his name was its own pun. Not just "Goku but with a color at the end of his name to signify that he's evil." And he actually looked like a dark reflection of Goku if Goku had never come to Earth.

Also, Broly apparently understands the concept of cuteness.