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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44026: Sep 26th 2016 at 1:51:49 PM

Also, Broly apparently understands the concept of cuteness.

In Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Broly appears in Tokitoki City for a mission the Future Warrior can participate in. If the Warrior is a Majin, he'll remark how they look cute.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#44027: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:15:01 PM

Broly's basically a 13 year old's Original Character made official; he has a transformation never seen before with a pretentious name "LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN", has some connection to the established main characters, one of said characters is scared absolutely shit-less of him when he's normally known to fight opponents until he's physically incapable. Demolishes said main characters rather effortlessly. Wolverine Publicity, (notice how he's the only movie character to be the antagonist of three films, though technically the last time was a clone and not the genuine thing but still...)

They gave him Super Saiyan 3 and 4 for whatever reason etc etc, and then you have fan projects like Dragon Ball Multiverse wanking him even more.

Its not hard to understand why he's not particularly well-liked for basically embodying everything terrible about DB fanon in general.

And yet people like Goku Black?

The inexplicable, maybe half-Kaioshin, evil palette swap of Goku that 13-year olds have been drawing on deviantart for years?

I mean at least Turles had a gimmick and his name was its own pun. Not just "Goku but with a color at the end of his name to signify that he's evil." And he actually looked like a dark reflection of Goku if Goku had never come to Earth.

edited 26th Sep '16 2:53:30 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44028: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:27:59 PM

Black actually has a personality though and a more complex motivation than "I HATE GOKU".

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#44030: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:32:36 PM

Yeah, instead of "I HATE GOKU", it's "I HATE HUMANS".

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#44031: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:49:14 PM

And still no heroism from Gohan. Why oh why must academic achievement be separate from superhero-ing? Gohan would be the nerdiest superhero ever, and his wife was a public superhero, and his daughter is already capable of flight. Is a Saiyan version of The Incredibles too much to ask?

But isn't the origin of the "lawl, Goku's a bad father" meme because Goku specifically pushed Gohan to train and fight Cell rather than just let him be a normal kid? note  By that note, isn't it a good thing that Gohan has focused on being a family man instead of dedicating himself to be the Protector Earth? tongue

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44032: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:52:06 PM

Nah, the origin of Goku's a horrible father meme is when Goku forgets that Gohan doesn't like fighting and thus wouldn't use all of that massive power to shitstomp Cell.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44033: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:53:18 PM

[up]Gohan not wanting to fight is not something Goku ever witnessed. Gohan was determined to go to Namek, he was determined to help against the Androids, and he was determined to be able to help against Cell, then all of a sudden nope.

That doesn't make just blindsiding him with it okay and Gohan's actually thoughts on the matter made sense, but acting as if Gohan being unwilling or unprepared to fight is a thing Goku should be aware of doesn't make much sense.

edited 26th Sep '16 2:57:06 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44034: Sep 26th 2016 at 2:59:43 PM

That would imply that Goku never, not even once, asked Gohan if he actually wanted to fight Cell.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44035: Sep 26th 2016 at 3:00:10 PM

It honestly just doesn't make much sense to me; so Gohan is determined to go to another planet for Piccolo and fight two deadly Androids, but he won't fight Cell?

Wuuuh? I mean if he was simply afraid of losing control of his strength, fine but he outright says he doesn't like fighting which was barely established beforehand.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#44036: Sep 26th 2016 at 3:01:58 PM

[up][up]I'm pretty sure we're supposed to assume that, hence the mistake.

[up]I mean, wanting to do all those things doesn't imply he likes fighting, so much as he wants to help people close to him/keep people from dying. Which still doesn't make him refusing to fight Cell make sense but...

edited 26th Sep '16 3:03:47 PM by LSBK

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#44037: Sep 26th 2016 at 3:04:00 PM

On the Broly vs Black conversation, Broly probably would've been better received if he - like Black - had an arc of episodes centered around him rather than a couple movies. The problem with Broly isn't all those traits, it's that he doesn't do anything but show up and be stronger than everyone else - it's a problem nearly all the DBZ movies have that they're mostly just set-ups for long fights with loose justifications and flat villains. Meanwhile, they're actually doing set ups with Black, he has a decent antagonism with the characters who set out to fight him, and the wayhe really does have an evil version of Goku's personality traits help. And they can do all of that because he's an arc villain with a lot of scenes dedicated to him.

And even so, Black didn't really start to get interesting until the plot started thickening with Zamasu. If Battle of Gods were all there was to Beerus (well, and also if he weren't the big villain of DBZ's revival, which has less to do with him as a character) he'd probably not be that well received either, because he has a lot of those problems as well (though he also has more of a personality).

I like Broly, and Bio-Broly is one of my favorite DBZ movies despite being the one everyone hates, but I can definitely see why people criticize him. There's something to having a villain who has nothing to him but being strong and legendary and able to kick ass, as long as the characterization for everyone else backs it up. And they work with DBZ's style, as antagonists in-between more important foes. But it's difficult to deny that he hits a lot of fandom hot buttons.

edited 26th Sep '16 3:08:02 PM by KnownUnknown

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#44038: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:08:10 PM

Really, I feel like Zamasu has so far gotten better development than Black.

Seriously, it's not like Black is that deep of character right now.

edited 26th Sep '16 4:22:26 PM by hardcorefakes

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#44039: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:15:34 PM

I like them both tbh, they compliment each other pretty well.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44041: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:20:53 PM

Given that it comes from the wiki, I wouldn't trust it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#44042: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:22:09 PM

First, Toriyama did design Broly.

Next, Black doesn't have development yet compared to Zamasu because of the entire mystery of who or what he is. Is he a clone? Another Zamasu from a different timeline possessing Goku's body, a new character altogether, ect. Because of this mystery, you can't develop the character because it will give the mystery away.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#44043: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:23:16 PM

Black and Zamasu are pretty good villains. I think making them Knight Templar villains is a stroke of brilliance, since it helps give them a unique personality; all other dragonball villains are plain old evil (Freeza), generally amoral (Beerus) or comedy (Pilaf). Zamasu and Goku Black are the first villains ever in Dragonball to truly have a self-righteous side and delusion of doing the right thing.

Granted the previous villains had a dynamic and enjoyable personality, but Zamasu and Goku Black are still rather unique

As for Broly, yeah it's in part because you can only give so much to a filler antagonist. But one of the main issues is that his hatred of Goku makes little sense, given the backstory we're given. "Goku crying" seems like some sort of parody motivation, and if anything Broly should want to kill Vegeta most of all.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#44044: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:31:30 PM

I personally found Broly's dad to be one of the most interesting villains since he tried to kill Vegeta because his dad tried to kill him and his son after begging for Broly's life. Even him mind-controlling Broly has good justifications considering how nuts Broly was.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44045: Sep 26th 2016 at 4:41:54 PM

It's hard to remember but Paragus was the Big Bad of the first Broly film.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#44046: Sep 26th 2016 at 5:16:11 PM

And Broly was The Heavy / The Dragon.....

You know, until that thing with the tossing him into space and all.

Paraguay PARAGUS (FUCKING AUTO-CORRECT!!!!) probably should have taken his son to a carnival or something....or just not made him murder planets.

Yeah. Especially that second one.

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#44047: Sep 26th 2016 at 7:17:20 PM

edited 26th Sep '16 7:32:23 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#44048: Sep 26th 2016 at 7:19:45 PM

Paragus is a neat villain what with not actually being a physical threat to the heroes.

Plus the Big Green version of him is amazing.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#44049: Sep 26th 2016 at 7:30:37 PM

Here there be WARRIORS.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#44050: Sep 26th 2016 at 8:37:25 PM

The inexplicable, maybe half-Kaioshin, evil palette swap of Goku that 13-year olds have been drawing on deviantart for years? I mean at least Turles had a gimmick and his name was its own pun. Not just "Goku but with a color at the end of his name to signify that he's evil." And he actually looked like a dark reflection of Goku if Goku had never come to Earth.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?

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