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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43676: Sep 10th 2016 at 6:17:54 PM

Unless their power goes into the gun...that example doesn't make any sense either.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43677: Sep 10th 2016 at 8:26:15 PM

The moment Kid Buu absorbed the Kais, he stopped being pure evil. It is like dropping a blob of ink on a white sheet. It is sill mostly white, but it still has a dark spot.

Super Buu absorbed several wholly good characters and had two Kais who made Fat Buu docile. Not matter how you sliced it, Super Buu wasn't pure evil.

And, as other have pointed out, Super Buu isn't Kid Buu. Once Fat Buu was separated from Super Buu's body, he ceased to exist. Even Vegeta said that Buu was gone for good once he unhooked Fat Buu and we actually see Super Buu melt in his own body.

edited 10th Sep '16 8:30:09 PM by Ramona122003

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43678: Sep 10th 2016 at 8:50:53 PM

No, "Pure Evil Boo" is the gray Boo that came out of Fat Boo. That's literally his (original, Japanese) name, not a descriptor.

That's the same personality as Evil Boo (Super Buu).

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43679: Sep 10th 2016 at 8:52:10 PM

[up][up]Actually, that's not how it works at all. Kid Buu was pure evil. When he absorbed the South Kai, he was still pure evil. It's only when he absorbs the Grand Supreme Kai Fatguy that he becomes 'not pure evil', and even then, that was a deliberate gambit on the Grand Kai's part. That's the only time Buu's morality is affected.

Super Buu is Evil Buu + Fat Buu, not Kid Buu + Supreme Kai. Naturally, the result of the equation is not the same, and the end result is a Buu with all the power of all the components but with Evil Buu in charge. I would not be surprised if Super Buu can also block the Genkidama on account of being pure of heart.

edited 10th Sep '16 8:53:31 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43680: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:14:46 PM

I would not be surprised if Super Buu can also block the Genkidama on account of being pure of heart.

......

I would not be surprised if Super Buu can also block the Genkidama on account of being pure of heart.

.....wait a minute....

Buu

.....hold on.....

block the Genkidama

<Remembers Gohan blocking the spirit bomb because he was pure of heart and deflecting it back at Vegeta>

pure of heart.

I don't know about Super Buu, but if Pure Buu is pure evil, HOW THE HELL WAS HE NOT ABLE TO BLOCK THE GENKI DAMA / SPIRIT BOMB?

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43681: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:18:06 PM

That wasn't even in the original manga though, in that the Spirit Bomb wouldn't hurt anyone that it wasn't locked on too; it had nothing to do with Gohan being pure, and everything to do with him not being the person that it was supposed to hit.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43682: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:19:49 PM

He DID block the Spirit Bomb. Reflect it back at Goku, even.

It was like a weird inverted tug-of-war that ended when they wished Goku to be back to full strength, giving him enough power to win that particular struggle and force it through Buu.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43683: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:22:23 PM

Because that's not how it works at all.

Deflecting the Genki Dama has nothing to do with a pure heart. When Gohan deflects the Genki Dama, it's because Goku tells him this:

"You don't have an evil ki, you can bounce it back!"

And that's not even necessarily because it's the Genki Dama - Kuririn had specifically been told by Kaio to aim for Vegeta's evil ki.

The "Genki Dama can be deflected by a pure heart" thing is a really prevalent piece of fanon, but it's unfounded and really fucking annoying. The truth is, if you have a non-evil ki, you can deflect one aimed at an evil ki. We have no confirmation of whether that's even part of the Genki Dama or the method Kuririn used to aim it.

edit: Pure Boo's ability to hold off and nearly push down the Genki Dama had to do purely with strength, and the lack of energy Goku had left. The Genki Dama is still a ki attack, it can be blocked/deflected like any other. But it's really hard to do when there is a lot of power behind it.

edited 10th Sep '16 9:23:29 PM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43684: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:23:46 PM

Can you call it a push-of-war?

[up]This is true.

Admittedly, in the Spanish version, they shortened it to "Gohan, you're good so you can bounce it back" without ever actually mentioning why that would even begin to work at all.

But to be quite honest, I like the irony of Buu returning the Genkidama because it is as pure of heart as Goku is, just evil.

edited 10th Sep '16 9:26:57 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43685: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:26:58 PM

....

Alright then. Carry on.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43686: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:29:23 PM

So basically, can be deflected by those with non-evil ki, but can still be pushed back by an evil ki simply if that person is stronger than it?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43687: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:31:05 PM

Presumably, it behaves like any other ki blast.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43688: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:33:53 PM

So...hypothetically, Superman would have no special resistance to it beyond his insane physical strength. >.>

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43689: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:42:40 PM

So basically, can be deflected by those with non-evil ki, but can still be pushed back by an evil ki simply if that person is stronger than it?

Yes, but we can only be sure that the first is true when the attack is specifically targeted at someone with evil ki.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43690: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:42:45 PM

That's something we can't say, because it's entirely possible that Superman's abilities are ki-based, and Kryptonians can just draw in the Sun's energy like the Genkidama itself does.

[up]Which can probably be done with other ki blasts if you're good enough.

Really, the only special thing about the Genkidama is that it draws energy in from multiple sources instead of just yourself.

edited 10th Sep '16 9:43:30 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43691: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:48:24 PM

And that it fails to kill anyone not named Buu. That's pretty special.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43692: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:49:08 PM

Well actually, that's more of a passive absorption on their end, they have to actually be in a star in order to do something similar to active absorption.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43693: Sep 10th 2016 at 9:50:30 PM

[up]

Eh, that's Toriyama's fault for insisting on having the attack Goku spent so much time learning fail both times it was used before Buu for the sake of subverting expectations.

I'm not sure why he thought it was a good idea to not have it work at least once before.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43694: Sep 10th 2016 at 10:22:22 PM

Depends on how you define failure. If Goku didn't know the Genki Dama when he fought Vegeta, they would have all been killed. And not because of some For Want Of A Nail thing, the Genki Dama was one of the biggest contributors to the damage he'd taken.

It may have failed at defeating Vegeta, but I'd say it succeeded in being a large part of the multiple factors it took to drive him away. It's not like with Freeza where it both failed to do significant damage and Goku could have potentially won without it ever being used if he still became a Super Saiyan.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43695: Sep 10th 2016 at 10:55:35 PM

I don't know...Frieza did seem pretty wrecked after the Spirit Bomb, due to all the damage we saw on him; it's possible that if both he and Goku were at full strength when they fought after Frieza went 100% of his power, then Frieza could have possibly done a fair bit better than he actually did. Granted, wouldn't really help Frieza's power drain problem so he'd still end up being far beneath Goku anyway.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43696: Sep 10th 2016 at 10:59:01 PM

We know how strong their powers are at their peak, though. Freeza still wouldn't win.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43697: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:04:56 PM

Didn't Frieza say he actually thought he was going to die there for a second? Plus he looked more beat up and part of his tail was missing, which I guess isn't that big a deal with him, but still.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43698: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:12:17 PM

He doesn't look that much worse for wear. One eye closed (which isn't damaged, as he opens it later), some scuffs and tiny amounts of blood on his body and a missing tail.

That's not even getting into the serious injuries that Freeza can survive. Even for a normal person's standards, he wasn't very damaged. The fact that Freeza thought he was going to die doesn't mean the Genki Dama ended up doing much damage to him, he thought he was going to die before it had even exploded.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43699: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:13:04 PM

Plus, do we know that's Frieza's full power when he's in top physical condition, or just the power he had right at that point in time after everything that had happened to him?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43700: Sep 10th 2016 at 11:20:27 PM

If they used Goku's peak why would they not use Freeza's? That makes no sense.

Besides, Freeza was putting out 100% of his power, and Goku was excited to see him at his peak. Despite the damage he had taken, Freeza's battle power wasn't lower than it should have been.


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