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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#43551: Sep 4th 2016 at 2:19:16 PM

Trunks surprise attacked Black and then Zamasu toyed with him.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43552: Sep 4th 2016 at 2:20:03 PM

Way I see it, we have two options:

SSR Black >= SSB Goku > SS3 Goku > Zamasu = SS2 Goku = SS2 Trunks, which doesn't really jive with those aforementioned moments where Trunks knocks SSR Black back and Zamasu fights SSB Goku.

or

Trunks and Zamasu are both somehow on par or near Goku and Black's level. I can buy Zamasu, but I'm not buying SS2 Trunks spontaneously being anywhere near SSB Goku.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#43553: Sep 4th 2016 at 2:25:15 PM

I just assumed it was like when SSJ2 Vegeta was able to surpass SSJ3 Goku after Bulma got hit combined with Trunks' natural ability.

Rage is a hell of a motivator.

edited 4th Sep '16 2:25:44 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43554: Sep 4th 2016 at 2:45:06 PM

Rage isn't only a hell of a motivator, it's actually something that makes Saiyans stronger, and if Gohan set a trend, it's even more effective for hybrids.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43555: Sep 4th 2016 at 2:54:22 PM

Cell's timeline isn't the original. Cell specifically said that Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold in his time. In the original timeline, Goku did it. Although, Goku still died of the virus, so Toriyama probably made a mistake.

You said this last time, as well, and I guess you ignored my response.

Cell doesn't say that. He mentions that he got Cold and Freeza's cells when they came to Earth, and that he could have had Trunks' cells as well. While that is clearly referring to Trunks killing them, it's impossible.

Cell comes from a timeline where Goku died of a heart virus, the Androids killed everyone, and Trunks went back in time to warn another timeline. This is all made explicit.

The implication behind what Cell said is a simple plot hole. There is no explanation for how Trunks could go back in time and change nothing, it would create several timelines that are never referred to, and contradicts the descriptions we've been given of the timelines.

edited 4th Sep '16 2:54:39 PM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43556: Sep 4th 2016 at 3:03:12 PM

I dunno, I think it's quite possible that the plothole can be answered by Cell either being wrong or lying.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43557: Sep 4th 2016 at 3:05:00 PM

Well, he could be wrong, but that seems unlikely. And he has no reason to lie, seeing as when he's explaining all this he's under the impression he's about to drink Piccolo after he's done talking.

edited 4th Sep '16 3:10:59 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43558: Sep 4th 2016 at 3:10:05 PM

I dunno, Cell's a dick, he could be lying just 'cause of that.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#43559: Sep 4th 2016 at 4:28:25 PM

Whatever happened to that guy who was upset with how Super kept shilling Vegeta?

:]

Vegeta's 0-2 currently. Beaten to a pulp by Hit, too slow to gnab the first fight with Black, gets his fight with Black and gets stabbed through the chest. Also, Super Saiyan Kaioken made Goku look better than him in the tournament.

I'm anxious to see how Vegeta's going to f'ck up in the manga since going Blue twice reduces his power dramatically. He shouldn't be able to do anything to Black or Zamasu by that point. Of course, Black might just shank him right away.

edited 4th Sep '16 4:29:31 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#43560: Sep 4th 2016 at 4:33:36 PM

Well, that's a funny thought. Someone suggested that, since Zamasu is immortal now, wouldn't it be fun if he got trapped in Trunks' sword, forever, for ultimate irony?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43561: Sep 4th 2016 at 4:51:57 PM

How would that happen?

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43562: Sep 4th 2016 at 4:55:23 PM

I still think it would be funny if this arc concluded with Goku summoning Zenou to deal with Zamasu, preferably right in the middle of one of Zamasu tirades. I mean can you imagine the look on his face? [lol]

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43563: Sep 4th 2016 at 5:01:52 PM

[up][up]

Same way Beerus trapped Old Kai in the Z Sword i would guess.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#43564: Sep 4th 2016 at 7:13:31 PM

I mean, was Trunks REALLY doing a better job at facing Black than anyone else? The problem is we've got no manga canon telling us the rough power levels of everyone. Even Toyotaro seems to be just making his own stuff up that's not necessarily the same in the anime.

Toei seems to just add more fighting because it looks cool and it's hard to tell how much of this is supposed to reflect actual power levels.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#43565: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:13:37 AM

As of watching the latest Super episode, my theory is that Black is the God of Destruction of Universe 10, possessing (or otherwise controlling) Goku's deceased body. This could mean that Zamasu's immortality can be bypassed via killing Black... or alternatively, that Black himself gained immortality by proxy. The latter theory is more plausible, as it explains why he kept smiling in each fight, even if it looked like he was outmatched, and it can also explain why he can use Goku's body despite the heart attack

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43566: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:44:03 AM

  • "The Japanese anime acknowledged that Goku wasn't exactly selfless.
Didn't the English Dub have Goku forgive Vegeta and Freeza out of mercy?"

  • Yes on Vegeta. No on Frieza. Goku never forgave him in the first dub. He spared Frieza out of cruelty than mercy. He wanted Frieza to suffer with the knowledge that he lost to a Saiyan. He only showed Frieza real mercy after he begged for help, and even then he really didn't want to.

  • "You said this last time, as well, and I guess you ignored my response.
Cell doesn't say that. He mentions that he got Cold and Freeza's cells when they came to Earth, and that he could have had Trunks' cells as well. While that is clearly referring to Trunks killing them, it's impossible. Cell comes from a timeline where Goku died of a heart virus, the Androids killed everyone, and Trunks went back in time to warn another timeline. This is all made explicit. The implication behind what Cell said is a simple plot hole. There is no explanation for how Trunks could go back in time and change nothing, it would create several timelines that are never referred to, and contradicts the descriptions we've been given of the timelines."

  • In the anime we clearly see Trunks cutting Frieza into pieces. Maybe that wasn't shown in the manga, but the anime made it clear that Frieza and King Cold died to Trunks.

In the anime, Super Saiyan 2 Goku is much stronger than Trunks. Super Saiyan 2 Trunks got wrecked by Black, while Goku fought him to a stand still. And Black was weaker when fought Trunks.

edited 5th Sep '16 3:49:31 AM by Ramona122003

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43567: Sep 5th 2016 at 4:12:42 AM

The manga shows Freeza and Cold at the moment of their deaths, from the Trunks fight. Like I said, the intent was obvious but it's just a plothole.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43569: Sep 5th 2016 at 5:40:38 AM

You know what sucks? Agonizing for hours trying to re-find a fantastic AMV of the Goku vs King Piccolo fight, even after learning that it was deleted, and searching the internet to find it on some websites known for scalping Youtube videos, only to fail to find it on all the suggested sites, I can't even remember what the song was aside from it being a semi-obscure rock song with a female singer, maybe with a theme of 'catching up', or something.

I legitimately feel physically bad that I've wasted hours on end trying to find something and failing at every possible opportunity, so I'm venting here because it's slightly related, being a Dragon Ball AMV, and if I don't vent to someone I'll just progressively feel worse about it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#43570: Sep 5th 2016 at 5:45:28 AM

yeah youtube videos being taken down sucks

my favourite channel for hearthstone compliations just straight up disappeared, no idea if the creator did it or it was taken down

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#43571: Sep 5th 2016 at 5:45:44 AM

>The pain of not being able to find something you've previously seen on the internet.

We've all been there bro.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43572: Sep 5th 2016 at 7:07:02 AM

I mean, it's hit me before: I used to be subscribed to a Channel called DBZ Fight Database, that painstakingly edited almost every fight in the series into a format with zero filler, padding, or dialogue, managing such miracles as shortening the entire Freeza vs base Goku fight into a mere 27 minute affair and shortening the entire Cell vs Gohan fight into just 23 minutes. It was taken down, but at least some of those videos can be found other places, reuploaded (not SS1 Goku vs Freeza though...).

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43573: Sep 5th 2016 at 7:55:36 AM

That channel sounded awesome.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#43574: Sep 5th 2016 at 7:58:13 AM

DBH God Mission 10 Commercial:

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#43575: Sep 5th 2016 at 9:58:39 AM

That new form for Demigra is so bad. It trades in the goofiness that made Demigra feel like a Toriyama character for the emo edgy generic coolness you find in non-Toriyama Dragonball works.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

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