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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43427: Aug 31st 2016 at 1:41:02 PM

Honestly, I see Super Saiyan 4 as being the absolute highest a Saiyan can reach in terms of mortal; basically the zenith of Saiyan power. The god forms are basically a way for the Saiyan to go beyond their mortal coils, and reach a level of power they could never on their own. Even Vegeta required both him retaining the power he gained from his rage against Beerus, and him training with Whis for several months to master his ki to the point he started to absorb godly ki from those around him.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43428: Aug 31st 2016 at 1:43:39 PM

[up][up][up]The discussion came up before you linked cool calendar artwork...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43429: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:42:10 PM

Super doesn't really follow the Sorting Algorithm of Evil since every threat so far is weaker than Beerus, and Hit was on par with Golden Frieza in terms of raw power. So the threats hasn't gotten bigger until recently and Black may still be weaker than Beerus.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#43430: Aug 31st 2016 at 3:12:27 PM

IIRC it was said there were no immediate plans for villains stronger than Beerus and Whis. I feel like it's probably inevitable though.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43431: Aug 31st 2016 at 3:16:53 PM

I think the real question is if there's ever going to a be threat to the guy who can literally destroy anything.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43432: Aug 31st 2016 at 3:38:11 PM

That isn't what Toriyama said. He said that he had no plans to allow Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus at the moment. He never said that no villain would be stronger than Beerus and Whis.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43433: Aug 31st 2016 at 4:53:11 PM

Though Super Saiyan Blue has only lost twice, against Hit and Black. So it's certainly hasn't become less useful.

Also, i love the God forms because they look more in line with how Toriyama does transformations.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43434: Aug 31st 2016 at 5:34:02 PM

The transformation can't lose, people, because the transformation is not a fighter.

It's like when dumb fans think that Super Saiyan is a set level of power.

Kaioken's a technique, not a transformation, no matter what Xenoverse might say about it, so SSJBKKX 10 is not a new transformation at all.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#43435: Aug 31st 2016 at 5:52:08 PM

I would argue that Blue Kaioken has the window dressing that new transformations get (comes about when you think the hero is at the limit, gets plenty of build-up immediately prior to use, completely wastes the competition initially) but absolutely is not one.

edited 31st Aug '16 5:55:15 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43436: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:00:39 PM

Ok, but it's not. It's Goku using the kaio-Ken technique while in Beyond God form.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43437: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:44:45 PM

"It's like when dumb fans think that Super Saiyan is a set level of power."

Can't tell you how many times I bang my head when I hear, 'such and such is only Super Saiyan level'.

It's like people think Super Saiyan Goku is as strong as he was on Namek during the Cell Games. Or all Super Saiyan 2 are as strong as Teen Gohan.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43438: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:47:35 PM

Or that Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Gohan are at the same level in the Cell Games, or that you can say a villain is at a certain transformation's level, or that Piccolo is Super Saiyan level.

It gets even worse in fanfiction, especially in crossovers.

(Granted, Fanfiction is the realm of morons that think that Kurama can take SSJ 4 Goku, so that happens a lot)

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43439: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:51:11 PM

I mean, Naruto has enough power-ups at this point that you could equate every single one of them with one of Goku's forms; Sage Mode with Kaio-ken, Version 1 Cloak (War Arc) with Full Power Super Saiyan, Nine-Tails Chakra Mode with Super Saiyan 2, Kurama Mode with Super Saiyan 3, Six Paths Power (the pre-form to SPSM) with Saiyan Beyond God, Six Paths Sage Mode with Super Saiyan God, and Six Paths Kurama Mode (his Six Paths forms from the Boruto era) with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

edited 31st Aug '16 6:52:32 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43440: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:19:49 PM

Sage Mode ain't Kaioken, tho. Sage Mode doesn't leave Naruto's body with a closer consistency to mush than flesh. If anything, the cloaks before he learns how to use Kurama's chakra without burning his skin off are more of a match for Kaioken.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43441: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:24:02 PM

Aw, but you forget, Sage Mode has just as many drawbacks as Kaioken does, between the amount of time needed to gather natural energy to the imperfect vs perfect forms, to the whole turning into a toad statue if you mess up thing; plus, they're both related to the last teacher both Goku and Naruto had, and possibly their most important one.

Also, let's not forget both Jiraiya and King Kai, despite their years of experience, could never fully master Sage Mode and Kaioken; then Naruto and Goku come in, learn those skills in an immensely small amount of time, and then proceed to ultimately take those skills to levels their users could never dream of (Naruto learning to gather enough energy for Sage Mode on the fly in seconds, and Goku taking what was really only meant as a x2 boost all the way to a x20 boost); hell, they even learn to combine both skills with other power-ups they have, leading to both Tailed Beast Sage Mode and the Super Kaioken respectively.

edited 31st Aug '16 7:33:01 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43442: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:31:39 PM

But the drawbacks don't match up and Sage Mode has no drawbacks if performed correctly.

In fact, if you think about it, none of Naruto's power up forms have a drawback if performed correctly, while all of Goku's transformations and the Kaioken, well, they do. Even Super Saiyan had a drawback until Goku mastered it in a deliberate attempt to reduce that drawback.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43443: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:34:32 PM

See the edit I made.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#43444: Sep 1st 2016 at 7:57:44 AM

This art looks pretty cool.

Not sure what it's about, but it's probably Trunks-centric.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#43445: Sep 1st 2016 at 8:13:08 AM

It seems to be representing the Boo Saga onwards...but that's a lotta Trunks'.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#43446: Sep 1st 2016 at 11:49:23 AM

Hey remember that time Goku almost killed Beerus

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43447: Sep 1st 2016 at 1:20:17 PM

Almost doomed the universe because he wanted to fight Vegeta.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#43448: Sep 1st 2016 at 1:22:30 PM

I mean he does that anyway sooo.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43449: Sep 1st 2016 at 1:24:05 PM

Not only that.

He could have ended the fight in second he'd been willing to use Super Saiyan 3 (though if Toriyama had thought of that, Goku probably would have run out of time before he could), but he actively chose not to.

Even when it became clear that he and Vegeta were evenly matched, he still chose not to do it.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43450: Sep 1st 2016 at 1:36:35 PM

Goku wanted to have fun in that fight, and he wouldn't have fun if he was four times as strong as Vegeta and ended the fight nigh immediately.

Also, I'm not sure that transforming wouldn't have woken Buu up immediately with all the energy that Goku bleeds out when he's transformed.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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