Hey, question. Why do people think Cooler is stronger than Frieza? Frieza at least went five minutes with Super Saiyan Goku. Cooler's bullshit ultimate transformation went five SECONDS.
My various fanfics.![]()
Because Goku said Cooler was stronger than Freeza. He says it in the original while Cooler is transforming:
Goku: Incredible...his ki is even greater than Freeza's!
Also, remember which Goku this is; the Goku that had gotten home from Yardrat, and trained some more in preparation for the androids (he was stated to have become stronger since he "returned" at the beginning of the movie). A stronger Goku than the one that that could stop Trunks' offensive with his finger. And people often exaggerate Cooler's performance in that short fight; sure, his half-assed punch got tanked, but he proceeded to laugh off a punch and kick in turn. While he actually got knocked back and seemingly hurt by those hits, namely the hard shot to the gut, making that feat less impressive than Goku taking Cooler's hit without budging, he still took no actual damage and was completely fine. Contrast Freeza's
◊ gut shot from Goku. More importantly, his and Goku's 'beam struggle' immediately after left Goku so spent and useless that he dropped out of SS and couldn't even move under his own power. He was so weakened from fighting Cooler that Salza was about to kill him. When you consider Future Trunks couldn't do shit to a weaker Goku's finger, that's not so bad.
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It comes from that movie's pamphlet. Probably to explain why Goku could floor a guy stated to be stronger than a Super Saiyan and Freeza with just kaio-ken.
edited 27th Jan '14 3:03:32 PM by sockpuppet1
Cooler gathers energy faster. The films have the benefit of not needing to be released every week and having contained storylines, thus, shorter fight scenes. Goku had a motive for dragging out the fight with Frieza, and he didn't with Cooler, so one punch to the gut - game over.
In the English version at least, Cooler says that he found a fifth form "beyond" Cooler's final form. I don't remember how many episodes/chapters Frieza's fight lasted, but Cooler proceeded to pummel Goku, both in normal state and in Kaioken, within five minutes.
He's far better than Frieza. So much better they gave him a movie and turned Frieza into a Worf measuring stick.
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-respectful nod-
edited 27th Jan '14 2:54:15 PM by FOFD
I do think they dropped the ball in portraying Cooler from a meta perspective, though. Even though Goku had simply gotten stronger (much stronger in this movie, since Cooler implies base Goku would defeat Freeza) it doesn't make sense to create a villain specifically meant to be better than Freeza and have him overcome by the same form. Just kind of a waste.
Yeah. In fact, in the movie, it's said that it takes place between the Frieza and Android sagas during the three years of training.
It would almost work too, except that Piccolo was supposed to be living with Goku, Gohan and Chi-Chi at that time, so there was no reason for him to pull the disappearing act at the end.
Beyond that, it doesn't really contradict anything in the series beyond the fact that it's never mentioned.
One Strip! One Strip!Except for the fact that Goku had difficulty turning Super Saiyan, whereas when he returned at the start of the Android Saga, he could turn Super Saiyan whenever he wanted.
My various fanfics.Trunks: Turn Super Saiyain.
Goku: Gimme a sec. turns Super Saiyan
vs.
Goku: Oh God, getting beaten to death! If only I could channel my Super Saiyan powers again!
My various fanfics.I know. Which makes the idea that fits in the normal timeline a bit difficult to swallow. The only Universe where Revenge of Cooler works is one where Goku lets himself get wished back to Earth, and things proceed as normal.
My various fanfics.You say that like it's a bad thing on Toei's part. I think to some extent the continuous escalation wasn't really a strength of the series.
The one nice thing I will say about GT is that it remembered certain elements like the Great Ape and Android 17 and tried to do things with them.
...It didn't use them especially well but still.
Anyway. I mean, Goku got sneak attacked and was out of it for pretty early on, and when he recovered it still took a little time before Super Saiyan was that necessary. And when he wasn't distracted by being beat up. Concentrating on things can get kinda difficult sometimes.
Overall it's a pretty minor thing, unlike all the movies where everyone is alive and on Earth except Gohan and Piccolo are friends and Vegeta isn't there and Super Saiyan isn't quite a thing yet.
edited 28th Jan '14 3:30:01 PM by unnoun
No, I say that like it's a thing Toei did which was inconsistent with the series. It was a bad thing, but only because Toei often did it in a way that didn't make sense, like leaving Super Saiyan looking like it was no stronger than a Saiyan's base form.
Goku can sense ki. The moment Cooler transforms (which gives him plenty of time), he would know he needs Super Saiyan, but he doesn't do it. Given that this is mirroring the battle with Freeza, it's portrayed like he turned into a Super Saiyan for the first time.
edited 28th Jan '14 3:29:31 PM by Saiga
You say that like being inconsistent with the series is a bad thing on Toei's part. Again, not too sure about that.
Except he already killed Frieza and used Super Saiyan to do it. So no, it's not that.
And, again, it's not like characters being dumb and not remembering to do things they can do is uncommon in this series.
And it's still a minor thing. It seems almost petty not to overlook it. Everyone is alive at roughly a point where they could be alive.
edited 28th Jan '14 3:34:54 PM by unnoun
I don't like inconsistency in general, and in this case I'm pretty sure it's bad because it ends up just not making sense.
And I don't remember exactly but I don't think it's ever said in the movie he was a Super Saiyan when he beat Freeza. Just that he beat Freeza on Namek.
Nobody has that kind of forgetfulness in the main series.
How is that petty? There's no reason to overlook it, and all I'm doing is pointing it out. Not saying it ruins the movie or anything.
The time they use the Spirit Bomb on Vegeta and think he's dead even when they should be able to sense him.
The time they use the Spirit Bomb on Frieza and think he's dead when they should be able to sense him.
Krillin never using the Destructo Disk on enemies that don't have regeneration and need their bodies in one piece to live.
Semantics.
...You say that like not making sense is a bad thing. And also like this series ever made an excess of sense to begin with.
Wasn't there a villain that turned people into carrots?
edited 28th Jan '14 3:51:58 PM by unnoun

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Did it ever actually say that he used a Kaio-ken x100, or is that hyperbole?
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!