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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43176: Aug 26th 2016 at 7:53:40 PM

Yeah. That's the chapter I was talking about.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#43177: Aug 26th 2016 at 7:57:47 PM

Perfect Cell line came from the guidebooks. Also, Piccolo is weaker than Supreme Kai, and he's is maybe around Semi-Perfect Cell in the manga. Remember, the Supreme Kai and Kibito saw Super Saiyan 2 Gohan who was a little weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the Cell Games, and they didn't think Gohan could handle Dabura alone. Meaning that Dabura is around Super Perfect Cell, since even a weakened Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would cream Perfect Cell.

By all indication, Cell vs. the Supreme Kai would be a close match.

Also, South Supreme Kai in the anime put up a fight against Kid Buu and hurt him. So they were even in term of power, but Buu absorbed him. Just as Gotenks was even to a littler stronger than Super Buu, but got absorbed. Kid Buu most likely didn't absorbed or try to absorbed Goku because he knew if he did he would have a personality changed again. Kid Buu maybe closed to mindless, but he did have some smarts. In the manga, Goku did try to end the fight with Buu fast, but Kid Buu regenerated too fast and was too hyper. It's in the anime and the dub that Goku sandbagged.

edited 26th Aug '16 7:58:23 PM by Ramona122003

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43178: Aug 26th 2016 at 8:41:40 PM

Piccolo is weaker than Supreme Kai, yes, but Piccolo is so far below Perfect Cell that the idea of his being weaker than the Supreme Kai being relevant at all is kind of funny.

Furthermore, Supreme Kai was scared shitless of Dabura. Gohan wasn't exactly scared and didn't exactly think he couldn't handle Dabura. Dabura wasn't shitting around and he knew that he had two more opponents to face, it's unlikely that he would've played with Gohan and depleted his stamina, even if he was purposefully dragging out the fight so Gohan lost more energy to power Buu.

The guidebook can say that the Supreme Kai was about equal with Dabura all it wants, it's still wrong. Like saying that Mr. Satan is a coward, as Toriyama said. It doesn't matter even if it's the author telling me to my face that the man is a coward, because this fucker went up against Cell and Majin Buu.

Sometimes, Word of God is wrong, because God is not Perfect.

Furthermore, Goku being able to beat Kid Buu is canon - him fucking it up also is.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43179: Aug 26th 2016 at 8:49:32 PM

He went up against Cell when he thought it was all fake and he was scared shitless against Buu and only tried to do anything to save face.

The man is a coward. A (arguably) lovable coward but a coward nonetheless. Being a coward doesn't mean you're a bad person or can't ever do anything brave ever.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43180: Aug 26th 2016 at 8:52:12 PM

We still have all two of Kaioshin's combat showings (telekinetically paralyzing Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and going down in 3 hits from Fat Buu, as opposed to 2 hits for SS2 Gohan), both of which indicate that Kaioshin is at least somewhere in SS2 Gohan's ballpark.

edited 26th Aug '16 8:53:27 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43181: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:00:24 PM

Being able to use telekinesis on Gohan doesn't mean he is as powerful as Gohan. Buu hitting him once more does not mean he is as powerful as Gohan.

Being consistently shocked at the Saiyans' power and being scared shitless of an opponent that Gohan could have conceivably defeated does tell me that Gohan was stronger.

If the Supreme Kai could take Dabura, he could've killed Babidi without help. All he'd need to do is distract Dabura and Kibito would've gone and killed Babidi, who's pretty damned weak and most likely not a powerful enough magician to defeat Kibito with his magic before Kibito murderizes him.

[up][up]Being afraid does not make you a coward.

Mr. Satan is scared of Cell. Mr. Satan is scared of Buu. Mr. Satan is even scared of the guys who shot his puppy.

You know what makes him a brave man and not a coward?

He confronted those threats.

Even if he thought that all Cell did was use tricks and bombs and shit... he's still going up against a person that he thinks has bombs and shit, stuff he is far from immune to.

When he went up against Buu, he knew, 100% certainty, that he was going to lose and die, and he still went and fought anyway.

When he went up against the gunmen, he knew that a single bullet could have killed him at any point, if he was unlucky. He is not fast enough to dodge a bullet, he is not tough enough to deflect it, and he knows it.

Being brave doesn't mean being fearless. It's the total opposite.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:04:25 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#43182: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:03:10 PM

I'm not saying he's as powerful, but the gap isn't very wide.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43183: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:05:26 PM

[up][up]And being willing to confront situations sometimes doesn't mean he isn't generally a coward, which he is. And no, he wasn't afraid of Cell when they "fought" because he didn't buy the act. With Buu, I believe he was trembling the entire time and begged for his life when the cameras were gone, though I could be wrong about that point, because it's been awhile.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:06:28 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43184: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:05:36 PM

And I'll say it is. Because if he is within Dabura's ballpark, again, he just needs to distract Dabura for like, a minute, tops. We are left to assume that if they fought, Dabura would defeat him in a couple of seconds, because the only other explanation is that he was just too stupid to realize how a two pronged assault works.

[up]Show me his cowardice, then.

Because what was shown was an incredibly brave man.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:06:07 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43185: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:06:28 PM

The gap was never really that large to begin with really; do recall that Goku never surpassed Frieza in his base form, meaning that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was at most only in the early to mid 10s of billions in terms of power level; it's actually doubtful if anyone managed to get into the trillions by the time of the Buu Saga, even counting Buuhan and Vegito.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43186: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:07:07 PM

[up][up]Except it was. You're just determined not to take it that way.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43187: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:08:48 PM

Show me his cowardice.

I've put forward my evidence to say that he is a brave man.

Show me your evidence to say that he is a coward.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43188: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:10:30 PM

And I refuted your claim. Being will to take actions when you're ignorant of the actual situation or too afraid to do anything else is not bravery. That you dislike what I've said does not change that I've already made my point.

He's had some brave moments, no doubt, but that does not undo his general character. But it's you so going further with it is pointless.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:11:43 PM by LSBK

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#43189: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:11:55 PM

I'd like to point out that, unless the translation of whatever interview or whatever it was where Toriyama said that Satan was a coward was 100% accurate, Toriyama may have very well not said "coward" specifically but something that the translator chose to interpret as such despite the word carrying different connotations.

Keep in mind that Word of God is in Japanese so even official translations should be treated with care.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43190: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:14:56 PM

Let's not forget that this is the man who rigs the World Martial Arts Tournament with Mr. Buu's help in order to stay as the World Champion; doesn't help that in Online, he retires from world of martial arts specifically because he couldn't keep rigging the tournaments without Mr. Buu's help, and that he gets involved in a scandal involving his Telecommunicated Satan-style Martial Arts Course videos, due to them being nothing more than overpriced rip-offs that featured flashy fight scenes enhanced through special effects.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43191: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:15:39 PM

So showing courage in the face of fear is not bravery.

Showing courage in the face of fear is cowardice, you say.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43192: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:16:06 PM

Okay, now you're just twisting his words at this point.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#43193: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:17:16 PM
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43194: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:17:39 PM

No, because the actions were not courageous for the reasons I clearly outlined, namely because he did those things because he was too stupid to know better and could bare to loose face.

And like I said before, I know there's not point in going further with this.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:18:16 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43195: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:32:30 PM

I like how you skip out on having to provide any actual canonical evidence just by saying "oh it's pointless arguing with you".

Because when it comes down to it, you can throw in all the "oh but he had selfish reasons to do it!" lines that you want, but I'd like to see you, or for that matter, any average human, confronting Cell, even if you believe that Cell destroyed all the stuff he destroyed with bombs and such.

Because, you know, that's still a guy that has fucking bombs all over the place.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43196: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:34:06 PM

This is also a guy who walks off getting slapped into a giant rock pillar by Perfect Cell, survives getting punched by Pure Buu once he spits out Mr. Buu, and survives a kick to the gut by Omega Shenron.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:34:17 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#43197: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:35:30 PM

[up][up]And I like how you just ignore everything everyone says to turn the other person into a strawman. It never gets old and definitely isn't like talking to a brick wall.

Feel free to believe whatever you want and I'll feel free to still think you're wrong. You're argument makes perfect sense if you completely ignore how he acts throughout but, that's stuff that disagrees with your point, and thus doesn't matter.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:36:32 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43198: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:35:57 PM

That last one was GT, though, it didn't make any sense.

He also, in the anime 'cuz I don't recall it being in the manga, once fell onto a rock spike... crotch first.

So?

[up]How about you provide, y'know, an actual argument to support your stance?

I'm still waiting for you to provide an example of his cowardice that is not just you saying "oh but he did it for selfish reasons". If just being afraid means you're a coward, then shit, every sane person in the planet is a coward.

edited 26th Aug '16 9:37:11 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#43199: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:36:32 PM

He's way more durable than people give him credit for.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#43200: Aug 26th 2016 at 9:37:45 PM

He definitely is. I mean, you'd sort of expect his torso to just explode when Cell bitch slaps him.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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