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TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#42776: Aug 10th 2016 at 10:09:38 PM

Well with two months left that's still plenty of time to show off the Buu, Ro F and GT stuff.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#42777: Aug 11th 2016 at 3:48:06 AM

It isn't "twice as strong", it is "twice his power level".

This is explicitly how it works in the series.

"Battle Power" is the unit, and it is a measurement of ki. For the sake of simplicity, strength and battle power units are completely interchangeable.

While I can understand how that logic doesn't work in regard to real world measurements, Dragon Ball simply doesn't use that logic.

On the TFS "battle powers are bullshit" line: It's great. The people who constantly parrot it are making the same mistake Vegeta is in that scene - talking shit about something they don't understand.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#42778: Aug 11th 2016 at 4:30:48 AM

The problem with Battle Powers arises when people expect them to be perfectly precise and consistent beyond "the dude with higher battle power is stronger". Like, I'm pretty sure Toriyama didn't sit down with calculator to write Sayian and Namek Sagas.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#42779: Aug 11th 2016 at 9:13:53 AM

The problem with power levels is that we still rely on and argue about them long after Toriyama stopped caring about them. His comment about Goku, Beerus, and Whis being a 6, 10, and a 15 respectively to me said that he really didn't care all that much.

It's gotten a little ridiculous if after 50+ years people are still arguing about a concept that is fairly outdated. There are those that want to try and figure out the power increase of Super Saiyan God, when it's only discernible feats are energy nullification and letting Goku get punched in the face by Beerus and not black out.

People keep trying to make sense of a franchise that didn't make a terrible lot of sense to begin with. If the creator didn't and most likely doesn't care, why do the fans? Compare the Spirit Detective Items in Yu Yu Hakusho, Gon's fishing pole in Hunter X Hunter, Shikais in Bleach, actual ninja tactics in Naruto, Hamon in Jojo, and Alucard having actual weaknesses in Hellsing - be it Early-Installment Weirdness or So Last Season, most of these concepts lost meaning once the series progressed, and this was typically for the better.

edited 11th Aug '16 10:28:54 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42780: Aug 11th 2016 at 9:33:39 AM

Power Levels weren't Early-Installment Weirdness; they were introduced halfway through the series' original run.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#42781: Aug 11th 2016 at 9:41:11 AM

If that is the only hole to poke in all of that, I am satisfied. :p

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42782: Aug 11th 2016 at 9:43:09 AM

I mean, you're mostly right, but I find trying to make sense of this series' Power Levels fun.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#42783: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:04:26 AM

I find the thread hijacking and taking headcanon used to fill gaps as truth (those gaps existed because covering them was irrelevant) annoying.

Feel free having fun, but don't expect me to take seriously a debate where somebody elaborates on why Krillin is stronger than Tien, because their functional power level is the same: Irrelevant.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#42784: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:22:22 AM

If you don't like it then just don't participate in it. There are plenty of other threads on the fora and other sites on the net and other things to do.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#42785: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:25:42 AM

I am not alone in that sentiment, tho.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#42786: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:27:57 AM

[up] (4)

I mean, I get that. I used to sit down with a notebook and try to record all of the power levels myself, used to be obsessed with figuring out the numbers from the show, games, and films. I've just lost my enthusiasm for it.

But I'm not keen on generalizing anyone who dislikes power levels as "mad because their favorite character is underestimated" or "too lazy to figure them out" either.

edited 11th Aug '16 4:33:28 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#42787: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:43:05 AM

I want the current arc to end with Goku fighting Black and losing as a Super Saiyan Blue, for him to attempt Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken, and for that to immediately kill him, leaving Trunks and Vegeta to fight him.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#42788: Aug 11th 2016 at 10:47:39 AM

....

That'd almost be funny, but it probably won't happen.

One Strip! One Strip!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#42789: Aug 11th 2016 at 4:27:11 PM

What ever happened to that Xenoverse 2 live stream?

edited 11th Aug '16 5:15:29 PM by Cortez

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#42790: Aug 11th 2016 at 6:23:12 PM

I want the current arc to end with Goku fighting Black and losing as a Super Saiyan Blue, for him to attempt Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken, and for that to immediately kill him, leaving Trunks and Vegeta to fight him.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#42791: Aug 11th 2016 at 6:25:07 PM

If Goku with a Kaio-Ken x10 Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan combination can't beat Black, what in name of heaven makes you think Vegeta and especially Trunks can do crap? Are we basing this on Goku softening Black enough for Vegeta to finish him like Golden Frieza? And if you mean Goku dies from the Kaio-Ken, Vegeta is still screwed since he is weaker than Goku even without the Kaio-Ken. So again, what do expect them to do except run.

As for power levels, I never cared about the numbers because really, they're worthless, especially when tacked on to the original Dragon Ball. I do like power scaling in which who is stronger than who, and how they would match up to certain characters.

edited 11th Aug '16 6:26:59 PM by Ramona122003

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#42792: Aug 11th 2016 at 6:27:12 PM

Well...Super Saiyan White may still become a reality...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#42793: Aug 11th 2016 at 6:38:54 PM

Ya know, it'd be funny if something like this happened:

  • Gohan: HYAAAA!!!!!!
  • Goku/Vegeta/Trunks/Black: Where did you come from!?
  • Gohan: Oh, I gained Super Saiyan White, which makes me fast enough to time travel.
  • Pan: HYAAA!
  • Gohan: Pan can also go White.
  • Krillin/Tien/Roshi/18/Satan/Videl: HYAAA!!
  • Gohan: Also, they learned how to go Super Human, which is almost as powerful as White.
  • Buu: Kikikeh!
  • Gohan: Oh, and Buu can go pure at will now.
  • Jaco: HYAAAA!
  • Gohan: Jaco can transform too!
  • Black: IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO CAN TRANSFORM!?
  • Monaka: Yo.
  • Black: GYAAHHHHHH!!!

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#42794: Aug 11th 2016 at 7:30:22 PM

Yeah, there was a time when I'd probably thought making a Dragon Ball game sounded like fun but managing all of the super saiyan forms sounds like a headache now. I like how Budokai 3 did it, but I think I'd just go the Captain Ersatz Serial Numbers Filed Off Spiritual License I can't believe its not Dragon Ball route.

That, or go the Dragon Ball Online route and have no proper saiyans playable.

Buldogue's lawyer
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#42795: Aug 11th 2016 at 7:36:45 PM

I mean, to be fair, there's only six main (canon) Saiyan transformations; Oozaru, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan Blue.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#42796: Aug 11th 2016 at 7:41:08 PM

It really shouldn't be that difficult to 'manage transformations'.

Xenoverse had a good idea in having different skillsets available with different costumes. I would say, allow a 'custom' option where you can match any era Goku costume with any skillset, for example, so that you can have the undershirt-less Goku who fought Radditz going SSJ Blue. And yes, I think SSJ Blue and God should be transformations and not entirely different characters.

Xenoverse had a big problem where one of the 'ultimate' slots was left unused, which I feel should've been the one where transformations went, instead of taking up an ultimate attack slot.

edited 11th Aug '16 7:42:00 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#42797: Aug 11th 2016 at 7:43:12 PM

There are two ways that Dragon Ball games tend to be made. There's the "Making a balanced fighting game" way which was accomplished best by the Budokai games. Then there's the "Represent everyone's moveset accurately" way which was best done by the second and third Tenkaichi games. Xenoverse tried to do both and had varying results.

This song needs more love.
Lampodigenio Insert cool sentence here from Somewhere in Western Europe Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Insert cool sentence here
#42798: Aug 12th 2016 at 4:07:21 AM

Ehm, how do I say this... Hi! Been a huge DB fan since I was a kid, so I thought I might try posting here once in a while. If anyone is wondering why my english is so clunky, I'm not a native speaker since I'm from Italy (in which the franchise has a very, veeery huge cult by the way) so apologize for the grammar mistakes I'll probably make every two lines of writing. Aaaaand, have a nice day! grin

P.S Regarding the discussion you had earlier, despite I loved Budokai 3 if I must choose which PS 2 game is the best, I'll probably go for Tenkaichi 3, because of the several playstyles. There were clones, yeah, but at least there were small differences that made every character a bit unique (and that is a good thing when you have three gokus, two piccolos and five-six vegetas)

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#42799: Aug 12th 2016 at 8:16:09 AM

The problem with power levels is that we still rely on and argue about them long after Toriyama stopped caring about them. His comment about Goku, Beerus, and Whis being a 6, 10, and a 15 respectively to me said that he really didn't care all that much.

What are you talking about? If anything, that shows that he still thinks in a similar mindset.


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