A few more characters from Fusions:
- Ginyuza
◊
- Pipiron
◊
- Kuwabara 44
◊
- Kikiri
◊ (Fem-Kakarot)
- Parika
◊ (Fem-Vegeta)
This will be the last thing I say on the subject.
The datebook claim that Goku and Tien were at 180 at the 22nd tournament, while Roshi was at 139. That is a different of 41, which is huge in this case, especially if young King Piccolo only had a power level of 260. Tien was holding back, but he was struggling and was shocked at how strong Roshi was. Roshi even took a kick to the head that should've left him comatose and Tien is shocked when he stood up. So Tien was stronger, but it wasn't by a huge margin. And again, Old King Piccolo was holding back half his power and he kicked Goku's butt, and his power would have been lower than 260.
edited 10th Aug '16 12:50:39 PM by Ramona122003
A female Goku and Vegeta.
Ok.
I guess there's Super Transsexual Android 17 too. Not to mention Great Saiyamarriedcouple Man 12. And somewhere down the line, a cat and a pig will fuse together into Oolonpuar, or Pulong.
Weirder things.
edited 10th Aug '16 12:56:36 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!Honestly, the power levels are most likely accurate when you remember that no one got above 350 until the Saiyan Saga. King Piccolo saying that Tambourine is several times stronger than Cymbol is most likely him just boasting, since it makes no sense if it was actually true; same for King Piccolo saying he only used half of his power to beat Goku in his older state.
edited 10th Aug '16 1:03:54 PM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!Characters' statements tend to be true unless proven otherwise. Why would Old King Piccolo randomly boast that he was only using half of his power when he wasn't. Piccolo wasn't know for bluffing, especially when Tien struggled against Roshi who he supposedly had a 41 point advantage over. And Cymbal is the weakest child, not counting Piano, since his job was only to hunt Dragon Balls.
As I said, Toriyama didn't put numbers to his fighters until the Saiyan Saga, so trying to go back and stick random numbers doesn't work because then we have to assume characters were lying or exaggerating, when nothing is shown to be the case.
Trust me, I am the biggest proponent of Power Levels, but early levels are complete horseshit as they compare to statements. It would've worked out much better if Goku and Piccolo were in the single digit thousands, at minimum, and than it all scales from there.
edited 10th Aug '16 1:06:59 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
Yeah, given the numbers presented in the Saiyan Saga, the numbers given by the Daizensuu and other guide books are the only numbers that make any kind of sense. We can only assume that the "half of my power" and "several times more powerful" lines are just BS.
Unless you'd rather use the ones given by one of the movies that had Pilaf be four times stronger than Goku was at the start of the movie or had Colonel Silver be stronger than Ten and Goku at the 22nd Budoukai.
edited 10th Aug '16 1:01:23 PM by Zelenal
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Except they're not, they're both below 400 by the time Raditz shows up with his power level of 1500; if they actually did what you said, then everyone would have to be scaled up with them, and the Frieza Saga escalation would have been even more fucking ridiculous.
edited 10th Aug '16 1:04:12 PM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!Power Creep being more ridiculous is a small price to pay for Dragon Ball levels to make sense and correlate to statements.
edited 10th Aug '16 1:05:53 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
Power Levels aren't arbitrary or meaningless. It's just another form of measuring. PSI measures strike force, MPH measures speed, and Power Levels measure the amount of Ki.
Honestly, whether we ever got numbers or not, it's like it would have changed anything. Frieza would still be ridiculously powerful whether he bothered to come up with numbers to express it or not.
I always get the impression that when most people say "Fuck Power Levels" what they really mean is "Fuck the characters I like being left in the dust" which is kind of unfortunate, but it has nothing to do with the numbers themselves.
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Your post comes with the implicit assumption that Toriyama was consistent with everything throughout his series. This thread is filled with people outlining how that's not the case at all.
In other words, if something doesn't make sense, it's because Toriyama messed up, not that "power levels are bullshit".
edited 10th Aug '16 2:13:45 PM by LSBK
To go even further, I'm not even sure calling it a mark against Toriyama's writing is fair, Power Creep tends to get out of hand even with writers people consider good, if the series has gone long enough.
edited 10th Aug '16 2:35:31 PM by LSBK
To be clear, it's the numbers for the original Dragon Ball that are BS, because to make the numbers work you have to assumes several characters were lying or exaggerating, even when the character in question has no history in lying. Like, how do you know King Piccolo was lying when he said he used half his power? The only proof is a datebook that came out years after the chapter and it isn't even written by the original author.
The numbers for fighter only came into existence in the Saiyan Saga, and Toriyama probably didn't think how these numbers would relate to his previous work. He just wanted to show how piss weak Earthlings were compared to the rest of the universe.
So you can power scale Dragon Ball, as in who's stronger than who, but you can't stick random numbers on people.
edited 10th Aug '16 2:38:16 PM by Ramona122003
You can definitely stick numbers onto people, they just don't correlate with the system of Power Levels introduced later in the series.

I notice that they edited the shade of Blue Vegeta's hair is.