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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#40526: Jun 18th 2016 at 10:36:08 AM

It accomplishes the same purpose I suppose - but come on.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#40527: Jun 18th 2016 at 10:36:33 AM

And the Pikkon stuff makes sense when you bring up the whole "Dead Bodies are more durable" thing. I think most people just assume that Super Kaioken would make Goku's body explode if he was alive.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#40528: Jun 18th 2016 at 10:38:53 AM

I mean, it probably would make him explode if he combined it with Super Saiyan 3. The sheer amount of energy drain would kill him faster than you can say "heart virus".

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#40529: Jun 18th 2016 at 10:54:43 AM

See, that I never get.

It was supposed to kill him when he pushed it past how many times? Two? Three?. Goku pushed it further.

I don't get why "well his base power's higher, the higher your base power, the faster it kills you" is the accepted explanation. Regardless of there being no evidence of that, Goku deliberately broke the ability and shot it higher than he should have in the Saiyan Saga. Then, in the Namek saga, when he was stronger, he started using even higher multipliers, didn't he?

But if Super Saiyan multiplied his power, then Kaioken multiplied his power - Kaioken would destroy him? What supports that?

And throwing out the logic of the whole thing, thematically, watching Goku breaking limitations and expectations is what makes his character great, isn't it?

  • Roshi tells Goku the Kamehameha takes a long time to learn. Goku learns it in five seconds.
  • Roshi expects Goku and Krillin to push a boulder and that this will get them off his back for awhile. They proceed to do so in a time that not only frightens Roshi, but they push it farther than he expected.
  • Saiyans have it as a biological function to come back tougher every time they get their asses whooped.
  • Goku obtains Super Saiyan God. The form runs out and Goku keeps fighting without even realizing it.

But for some reason Kaioken, for lack of Goku using it (and Toriyama most likely forgetting about it), everyone goes, "Ah, well if he used that and this , the exertion would kill him!"

edited 18th Jun '16 11:09:06 AM by Soble

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#40530: Jun 18th 2016 at 11:23:25 AM

Actually, it looked like the God forms gave Goku partial immunity to the Time Skip, since it had scenes of both forms moving within it a little.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#40531: Jun 18th 2016 at 11:41:25 AM

I guess mastering god ki gives one the ability to mess with physics. tongue

Bolded1 Fate, guide me from behind you!!!!!!!! Since: Mar, 2015
Fate, guide me
#40532: Jun 18th 2016 at 11:45:39 AM

I think that Goku being stronger than Hit for this brief instant somehow allowed him to power past his hax. It's like when Vegito still carried out curb-stomping Buuhan even as a candy, I guess.

IDK with god forms granting immunity to time-skip, Vegeta still got clowned.

edited 18th Jun '16 11:47:59 AM by Bolded1

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#40533: Jun 18th 2016 at 11:50:03 AM

Having godly ki just makes you better than most people, even smaller deities.

Makes you resistant to time manipulation, immune to demonic possession and influence, and it shreds pretty much all body fat.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#40535: Jun 18th 2016 at 1:06:58 PM

... Huh, now that I think about it, if the God Form makes you lose body mass, does it mean that the stronger your God Form is, the more body mass you lose?

...

Well that explains why Beerus looks like he does.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#40537: Jun 18th 2016 at 1:42:28 PM

Maybe it works the other way around in Universe 6?

And it would've been hilarious if they'd lost the tournament, gone to the other universe, and suddenly going SSJB made them super fat.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#40538: Jun 18th 2016 at 1:51:04 PM

Pikkon stuff was all filler, though.

True, but that's the last time Goku having FPSSJ meant anything since he has higher levels of Super Saiyan when he comes back during the Buu Arc.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#40539: Jun 18th 2016 at 1:58:03 PM

To be fair, the only time Super Saiyan 2 meant anything was when Gohan used it to defeat Cell.

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#40541: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:17:50 PM

I'm pretty sure the god form doesn't give one immunity to time stop because Vegeta has it. There are two explanations I, personally, accept.

One: once your power level gets high enough things stop working the way they should on you. This goes all the way back to "Jackie Chun's" lightning thing.

Two: Goku can manipulate time too, as well as space. He developed instant transmission by studying beings who manipulated space and time, so him studying Hit and then beating Hit's time skip makes sense.

A side note, it seems the mangaka dislikes Vegeta even more than I do. I love it! With all these deviations, maybe the manga will just stop shilling the anime and come up with it's own plots and characters? Granted, the last time that happened with a TOEI project that I remember, it kind of sucked, but there is precedent for a manga and anime to go and separate directions and both be good.

edited 18th Jun '16 2:31:03 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#40542: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:23:01 PM

Actually, apparently the reason for why Vegeta lost to Hit at all is, well, because the SSB form is a stamina drain; it's not feasible to use it in rapid succession like Vegeta did, and when he used the form against Hit, he had actually lost 90% of his power, meaning he was only at a SSB 10% state. A few lines between Goku and Vegeta after the match have Goku point out that Vegeta would have actually won against Hit, if he hadn't lost so much power by showing off against Cabba.

So yes, this entire tournament was entirely pointless, since either Goku or Vegeta could have blown through everyone on their own.

edited 18th Jun '16 2:24:18 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Bolded1 Fate, guide me from behind you!!!!!!!! Since: Mar, 2015
Fate, guide me
#40543: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:23:44 PM

Worth noting that when Hit's move powered up again, he caught Goku in the time-skip, so I really think that it's more of a matter of Goku's brute strength overcoming Hit's for a moment, which would fit with Vegito resisting Buu's own hax and stuff.

Anyhow, I'm really hyped for the Goku Black arc btw. I dislike Happy Ending Override but it looks really good so far.

edited 18th Jun '16 2:24:18 PM by Bolded1

Nautolan picture belongs to Bonesmarinated on twitter
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#40544: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:26:20 PM

Also, explanation for the Time Skip thing.

Hit doesn't use ki/stamina to perform his Time-Skip. He can use it indefinitely without weakening himself, but can't use it when drained. As he states that he might only be able to handle one more Time-Skip at full power before it runs out.

Goku is stronger than Hit in terms of pure power with just SS, but he uses up too much stamina to keep up in that form. Goes SSG.

Hit can only fully Time-Stop opponents for the full 0.1 seconds if they're weaker than him. The further they are above him, the less it lasts. So when goku goes SSG, he has trouble holding him back the full time.

Unlike the anime where hit has a set level of power at first, and then later makes huge gains to his power and improved Time-Skip via "growth", Manga!Hit is just hiding his true power at first and unleashes it to counter SSG. He says it's been so long since he used it, that it may not even last a minute.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#40545: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:34:34 PM

So what you're saying is that Guldo has a better Time Stop than Hit.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#40546: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:38:50 PM

Also, this:

Hit has trouble Time-Stopping SSG Goku. Beerus asks why it managed to work on SSGSS Vegeta then, and Whis replies that's because Vegeta was weakened to ~10%. Later, Vegeta asks why Goku gave up when he had the match won. A few lines later, Goku says Vegeta probably could have won too, if he hadn't wasted energy transforming for Cabba.

[up] Yes, yes he does.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#40547: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:40:35 PM

Guldo's time stop is amazingly broken and, in fact, teaming up with Ginyu they could use it to take over Freeza's body.

... But Guldo sucks too much to make use of it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
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#40548: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:40:43 PM

So what you're saying is Manga!Hit is wimpier than TVSHOW!Hit?

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#40550: Jun 18th 2016 at 2:45:01 PM

Well it's not like he powerups through "growth" like in the anime, he's just holding back his power like Frieza was doing. Also, his Time Skip remains as a 0.1 seconds time stop throughout the fight, he just uses more of his held back power to make it harder for Goku to resist it; it doesn't grow in length like in the anime.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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