TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#38601: May 6th 2016 at 11:34:05 PM

Subject of discussion:

Goku = Combat Pragmatist, yeah or nay?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#38602: May 6th 2016 at 11:51:20 PM

Healing your enemies isn't pragmatic.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38603: May 6th 2016 at 11:53:00 PM

Well there goes that topic, heh.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#38604: May 6th 2016 at 11:54:51 PM

Dragon Ball Heroes God Mission 8 Cardlist

Every card released for this update except for the 2 secret cards, which should be revealed in a few days.

Any favorites?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#38605: May 6th 2016 at 11:55:40 PM

I don't know...Goku did knock Recoome out in the middle of an attack, and punched Jeice immediately in the face before he was even ready. And let's not forget when Goku bit Frieza's tail ready hard to get him to let go, or when he shot Vegeta's eye out when he got trashed against the former's Great Ape form.

Oh, how about when his plan to beat Raditz was to grab his tail, abuse the weakness he had to it like he had in his youth, and hold him down so that Piccolo could kill him with his attack.

edited 6th May '16 11:57:48 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38606: May 7th 2016 at 12:23:50 AM

Goku's a Combat Pragmatist, except when it gets in the way of his Saiyan trait of helping his enemies to get a better fight.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38607: May 7th 2016 at 12:25:15 AM

...Unless he's actually fighting the main villain.

Winning doesn't always = Killing, for Goku anyway.

edited 7th May '16 12:26:56 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38608: May 7th 2016 at 12:34:28 AM

Letting them live counts as helping his opponents to get a better fight later.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#38609: May 7th 2016 at 12:43:09 AM

[up][up][up][up] Goku can make pragmatic moves without being a pragmatist. Most of those are one-offs in their particular fight, and don't represent the attitude he brings to the fight.

Goku rarely goes into a fight thinking he'll do anything to win. It's just not his approach to fighting at all. Goku vs Raditz is a better example, which shows how far you have to outclass Goku before he behaves like it. It's not his natural behavior.

All of his Honor Before Reason and Blood Knight tendencies are far stronger and more important to his character than his pragmatic moments. He's not a Combat Pragmatist.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#38610: May 7th 2016 at 4:38:02 AM

I agree with Saiga.

Goku can be pragmatic, but being consistently pragmatic would get in the way of a fun fight.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#38611: May 7th 2016 at 5:00:06 AM

Sounds about right to me.

Goku's definitely not into the concept of "honor" though either. What makes for a fun fight and what makes an honorable one aren't necessarily the same.

Sometimes what's fun happens to be honorable, but that doesn't make honor the reason Goku does the things he do.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#38612: May 7th 2016 at 10:31:52 AM

Amusing to see our Discussion spill over into the thread.

We've talked it over extensively both in Discussion and ATT and it's been overwhelmingly agreed that while Goku has been pragmatic here and there, he does not have the requisite attitude for a combat pragmatist: the intention of doing whatever it takes to win the fight as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The Combat Pragmatist does not take his time and draw out the fight. He does not allow his enemies to reach full power. He does not offer them healing items or hold back his own strength for their sake. He doesn't accuse others of cheating because he doesn't believe in a fair fight anyway; the only part of the fight that matters to him is that he's the one standing when the smoke clears.

This is not Goku.

edited 7th May '16 10:32:18 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38613: May 7th 2016 at 10:41:42 AM

Would fuuture Trunks be a Combat Pragmatist?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#38614: May 7th 2016 at 10:52:02 AM

He is trying to be, but he just doesn't have the experience to do it. He would like to be the one that just blasts Cell while Vegeta's taunting him, but he just can't pull it off.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#38615: May 7th 2016 at 10:54:22 AM

To be fair, a lot of people tend to get in his way when he tries, mostly Vegeta; let's not forget that Vegeta was keeping Trunks away from Cell when he was going after Lazuli so he could get a better fight out of Perfect Cell.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#38616: May 7th 2016 at 4:35:13 PM

Of course, Trunks could have still killed Lazuli.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#38617: May 7th 2016 at 4:58:40 PM

So in the manga, when Vegeta gets healed after Earth and the PTO says they couldn't save his tail, he says it'll grow back.

And near as I can tell it never does.

Why was he wrong about that?

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#38618: May 7th 2016 at 5:16:00 PM

This is probably just a case of "Toriyama forgot."

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#38619: May 7th 2016 at 5:27:23 PM

Alternatively, it's been retconned to be sarcasm? tongue

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#38620: May 7th 2016 at 5:49:53 PM

My guess is Toriyama gave up on tails, and decided to cut them out.

I would also agree he forgot, but we've already decided he's not as forgetful as we were led to believe (though when you don't make any attempt to plan things out, it's not surprising that stuff slips your mind).

One Strip! One Strip!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#38621: May 7th 2016 at 7:46:19 PM

So, in Super...

according to the next episode preview, we're one step closer to getting Super Saiyan Pan.

edited 7th May '16 7:46:29 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38623: May 7th 2016 at 7:56:42 PM

Is that a...

Please dear god...yes?

or...

Please dear god...no?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#38624: May 7th 2016 at 7:58:54 PM

You have three guesses and all of them are wrong.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010

Total posts: 130,800
Top