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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#36251: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:48:01 AM

∞ = truly limitless for the sake of this conversation.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#36252: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:01:26 AM

Like the universe, I wouldn't think anything less.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#36253: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:17:40 AM

The Universe is not limitless though. It's constantly expanding, but it does have a limited size, and as it keeps expanding, eventually it'll collapse upon itself and then the Big Crunch will happen, which will be the end of the universe.

Anyway, when I said the thing about shitty Pair the Spares pairings, I was actually talking about Pair the Spares in general, which is used in pretty shitty ways in a lot of things. The worst examples, though, definitely come from fanfiction.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36254: Mar 22nd 2016 at 5:09:07 AM

I honestly believe Toriyama doesn't know what to do with some of his characters anymore. Can't have them in fights, but you can't get rid of them without your fanbase revolting. So now they're just kind of "there."

I don't think this is the case because he had an opportunity for her to fight right there and deliberately wrote her staying out of it. Sure Freeza soldiers aren't much compared to her but that didn't stop Gohan or Piccolo from getting involved.

Bolded1 Fate, guide me from behind you!!!!!!!! Since: Mar, 2015
Fate, guide me
#36255: Mar 22nd 2016 at 5:13:38 AM

That innocent barrier is always broken, c'mon.

Nautolan picture belongs to Bonesmarinated on twitter
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36256: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:21:06 AM

[up][up]

I think it's just that he has characters he wants to write, and characters he doesn't.

I mean, just appearing in the series earlier won't guarantee he'll still care about you later. A characters arc can last a good bulk of the series (Krillin and Vegeta) or be settled before their introductory arc is finished (Yamcha and Tien).

This is a guy who writes whatever he feels like, so you never know really. There's no overarching story. Just one adventure to the next.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36257: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:38:53 AM

That Toriyama really likes using Krillin should be self-evident at this point. Just look at the Buu Saga. The greatest warriors of the Planet Earth fly off to confront Babidi: Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo...and Krillin. Why was Krillin there? Videl actually goes home because she's a liability, but Krillin doesn't. He gets to Babidi's Ship and spends the entire opening conflict petrified for it.

What did Krillin think he was going to be able to contribute? Was he expecting some dire moment where the chips are down and Goku and Vegeta are at their limits and now only Krillin and his "slightly better than 4/5 of the Ginyu Force" power level can save the day? Why was he there?

Videl acknowledging that she's basically just slowing the boys down and leaving while Krillin just keeps on flying as if he has anything at all to contribute kind of set the stage for 18's Stay in the Kitchen moment later. Among humans, the men are no more or less useless than the women, but the women are strangely eager to accept it.

edited 22nd Mar '16 7:40:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#36258: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:41:22 AM

They basically admitted their uselessness at the Cell Games.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#36259: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:43:22 AM

I think 18 could definitely have taken at least Puipui, and probably Yakon as well. She just cared more about the tournament and the money.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36260: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:52:53 AM

Undoubtedly. 18 didn't got fight Majin Buu because she had other things to do, which she did and it was awesome. She had agency and her own side story, complete with a rather impressive feat of managing to wrestle a win out of a fight with Goten and Trunks simultaneously.

Videl didn't. Videl just f*cked right off out of the story because she wasn't tough enough to hack it. And that's fine, but it raises the question of why Krillin wouldn't do the same. It's not like he does anything when they reach Babidi's ship. He spends the entire sequence Taken for Granite and then escapes with Piccolo and the kids. He might as well have been back at the tournament with 18 for all the good it did.

Videl and Krillin were equally worthless to the battle, but Videl acknowledges this and leaves while Krillin keeps going and shows up to contribute nothing and be worthless, because Toriyama just wanted him there.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#36261: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:54:37 AM

Toriyama is being ashamed of being a human being and takes it out on the human characters.

That's also why he draws himself as a robot.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#36262: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:55:18 AM

Krillin doesn't seem to even know when to quit. The guy charges fucking Super Buu at the Watchtower and dies for it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#36263: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:56:32 AM

Didn't she wrestle that win from them because they had to try really hard to not accidentally kill her? I'm pretty sure Saiga has said that. It's not that impressive in that light.

[up]That wasn't about winning, it was about buying time for the others to escape. He knew he didn't stand a chance.

edited 22nd Mar '16 7:58:46 AM by LSBK

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#36264: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:56:40 AM

[up][up]Nobody ever bothered to tell him "Don't stick your nose into this".

edited 22nd Mar '16 7:56:55 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36265: Mar 22nd 2016 at 7:59:46 AM

Yes, they could have easily killed her. And they lost. They were the more powerful fighters and they lost. In Dragon Ball of all places, they were powerful enough to easily wipe the floor with her and she won the fight through cleverness.

Now try and think of how many other times that's happened.

EDIT: She even did it with the Kienzan, which has never historically won a fight until this moment.

edited 22nd Mar '16 8:01:31 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#36266: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:01:20 AM

Probably a few.

Sorry man, it just really not that impressive if the only reason she even had the chance to win through "cleverness" is because they were deliberately holding back most of what they can do.

And they weren't even holding back for a stupid reason like to drag the fight out like Vegeta or Goku. Not wanting to kill someone accidentally is pretty important and not something that should be brushed aside the way you are..

edited 22nd Mar '16 8:03:20 AM by LSBK

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#36267: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:03:54 AM

How can they tell Krillin not to stick his nose in it when he doesn't have a nose?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#36268: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:04:29 AM

Krillin went because he's a good friend that always has Goku back, however little that means.

To get away from beating this dead horse for a bit, I have to wonder what Hit actually did to Frost. It looked like the space itself was fracturing, then energy beams shoot out of Frost, and the he just dropped down with no visible damage? That must be one of the weirdest abilities we've seen yet in Dragon Ball.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#36270: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:08:09 AM

Krillin always goes because he knows at least once his death triggered the transformation Goku needed to save the day. He figures out, after how repetitive the series' pattern gets, why can't it happen again?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#36271: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:10:31 AM

Krillin tags along because he's a bro and tries to have his friend's backs; even if it he can't help in a significant way, there's nothing wrong with at least trying.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#36272: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:28:05 AM

Not to mention, he IS abnormally strong on top of being a damn good martial artist.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36273: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:30:28 AM

Agreed with why Krillin went. He wanted to back up his friends. Also not debating why 18 stayed behind. She had more important things to do (well, to her).

It's justified in the Buu saga, but far less so in Resurrection F. Even if you ignore that 18 could protect Marron better (that is, if Frieza even gets that far, which he didn't), she's stronger and therefore more useful, or that Frieza was completely beyond both of them anyway, there's really no reason she didn't go.

I think it's simply that Toriyama has the character he wants to use, and the ones he doesn't so he finds ways to push them out.

We already pointed out the hoops he went through to keep Gohan out of the final fight with Buu despite the fact that he could have pasted the pink blob at the end. They could have at leas had Vegeta say I'm worried he might get absorbed again, but even that excuse wasn't used.

Toriyama didn't want Gohan in that fight, so he wasn't in that fight. Simple as that.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36274: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:31:18 AM

Krillin tags along because he's a bro and tries to have his friend's backs; even if it he can't help in a significant way, there's nothing wrong with at least trying.

There is everything wrong with trying. There's a reason the characters move fights out of cities: so they can focus on winning the fight with their opponent without having to spend half of it running around scooping civilians out of the way and tanking blows to the face that might destroy a skyscraper.

Someone who cannot contribute in a positive way can contribute in a negative way. Remember when Gohan lost an arm and half his ki fighting Super Perfect Cell because he had to save Vegeta from an attack that would have vaporized him? Krillin is Vegeta in this scenario. That's his contribution. He can't help, he can't fight, he can't do anything but get people killed trying to protect him.

Non-combatants on the battlefield are a liability against any foe whose rules of engagement do not include an unwillingness to engage them.

edited 22nd Mar '16 8:35:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#36275: Mar 22nd 2016 at 8:41:58 AM

Neither Krillin nor 18 go. Marron shows up at the battle instead. Calmly, she walks past a baffled Goku and Vegeta, stops right before Frieza, then beats him down to a pulp.

Best outcome ever.


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