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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35676: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:38:24 PM

I would've thought that Ten-Tails Obito and Madara could've thrown down with Piccolo post-Nail fusion at least, with the Otsutsukis themselves maybe even giving Frieza a good fight.

Yesh, no. Holy crap no, that isn't anything less than a stomp for Dragonball.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35677: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:44:58 PM

Madara and Hagoromo do have soul removal powers though, can't really defend against that in this universe unless you're a god. >.>

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35678: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:45:51 PM

And Kaguya has the bone spear... thing that's supposedly an instant kill if it connects.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35679: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:48:32 PM

Roshi blew up the moon very early in the series. Piccolo's ability to do so is not in question.

I'll note that Roshi blowing the moon means we basically had planet busters that early on.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35680: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:59:34 PM

...

Well shit. It like, I knew that, but the tone of that point of Dragonball is so different that it's easy to forget.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35681: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:00:46 PM

You didn't say they had no authority on your opinion, you said they had no authority. And of course they have no authority on your opinion, just like they have no authority on mines. I only mentioned them to give context that other people think Goku acted cocky, which is why his behavior in Resurrection 'F' doesn't seem odd or OOC. Namely, you didn't think Goku acted cocky, other people did.

I said you were wrong that there is no basic on Goku's behavior, which I pointed to many fans that there is basics. Maybe I did word it too strongly and should have said that people disagree that there is no basic for Goku's behavior.

Yes, I made the claim that a island destroy is stronger than a mouth blast. You then talk about Piccolo destroying the moon and still having a lot of energy. There is nothing showing that Piccolo's mouth blast was strong or anything more than a sucker punch. And since Master Roshi destroyed the moon during the 21st tournament, I still don't see your point other than Piccolo can destroy the moon faster and more effortlessly than Master Roshi. Which isn't surprising since I'm sure King Piccolo could also destroy the moon quickly and almost effortlessly since he's many times stronger than Master Roshi.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:02:05 PM by Ramona122003

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35682: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:00:56 PM

Though that said, Bleach may squeak by DB if the Soul King's powers really are universal. The old Soul King couldn't really use them on account of being stuck in a crystal, but now that Yhwach, who will assuredly fight, is the king...

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35683: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:02:26 PM

Early Naruto beats Early DB...

...but Late DB beats Late Naruto.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#35684: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:03:49 PM

So, it's agreed Demon God Demigra is a corrupted kai.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35685: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:10:39 PM

Can I just point out that Roshi was using his MAX Power state to blow up the Moon, and was using the Kamehameha in order to do it, which in itself is a move that has more power than the user would usually have otherwise.

Also, can anyone make sense of the English dub of F having Frieza say he could achieve a power level of 1.3 million after four months of training; I was thinking that was referring to how powerful his "First Form" would be afterwards, which would scale up his full power by the same amount that it did the first time, which would lead to a power level of 294 million. This itself wouldn't factor in how much power his Ultimate Transformation would give him, but I can't figure out a way to make that work, since if Goku a) had a power level of 80 million by Battle of Gods, and b) that Super Saiyan God was a 20,000 times boost, it would lead to Frieza's final power level of somewhere in the 100 billions vs God Goku's power level of 1.6 trillion.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35686: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:19:01 PM

There are three ways to take the line.

You can take it as Frieza talking about his first form which has a power level of over 530,000. Basically, Frieza will double the power of his first form, which will greatly increase his overall strength. Through training, Frieza becomes far more powerful than even he expected, which is why he rush to Earth as soon as he gained his golden form. Namely, Frieza actually underestimated himself, since even he was surprise that he took out a Super Saiyan with one hit.

You can take it as a joke at how, using Abridge here, power levels are bullshit. Frieza gives this big number that is so supposed to be impressive and scary, but to the audience it's utterly laughable since we know a power level 1.3 million means jack and Frieza would get be kid fodder even with his training. It also highlights how So Last Season Frieza is using an outdated power indicator.

Option three, it's both. I tend to go with this option. It is both a joke it how utterly worthless power levels are and Frieza vastly underestimated himself.

Also, reading your post, where did you get those numbers? There are no official power levels after Frieza Saga and Super Saiyan God was never given a power boast number. The only numbers we have on Super Saiyan God are on a scale of 1 to 10: Super Saiyan God Goku 6, Beerus 10, Whis 15.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:31:15 PM by Ramona122003

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35687: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:29:44 PM

Option four, it's a mistake. Probably the simplest and most likely answer especially over the ridiculous notion that the official material is going to start referencing jokes made by the western fandom, which is the only place the "power levels are bullshit" mentality exists.

You didn't say they had no authority on your opinion, you said they had no authority

I know what I said, I meant what I said. They do not have any authority.

Maybe I did word it too strongly and should have said that people disagree that there is no basic for Goku's behavior.

Exactly.

Yes, I made the claim that a island destroy is stronger than a mouth blast

Without doing anything to satisfy burden of proof.

You then talk about Piccolo destroying the moon and still having a lot of energy. There is nothing showing that Piccolo's mouth blast was strong or anything more than a sucker punch

The point was to say that "island busting" is not the limits of what Piccolo should be capable of, therefore it shouldn't be assumed it was stronger than his mouthblast.

Pointing out he still had energy refuted the idea that the mouth beam must be weak because he was still exhausted.

There is nothing showing it was weak or anything less than that either. It just gets into circler logic: Goku was hurt by a weak beam because he was off-guard, the beam is weak because Goku was off-guard. Or maybe the beam is just strong enough to hurt Goku?

edited 11th Mar '16 9:35:28 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35688: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:30:54 PM

[up]My thoughts as well.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:32:03 PM by LSBK

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35689: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:37:06 PM

I don't see how it is a mistake. Toriyama read the manga again so he would know what base Frieza's level is and Toei checked the script and did make corrections like changing a line about Frieza meeting Bulma, so if it was mistake they would correct it.

Also, Toriyama did away with the power levels because the numbers were becoming too big to be impressive and he regretted the idea of power levels as soon as he made them since the one with the highest levels will always win, which is why he came up with power suppression and techniques that can pack a lot of power. So him making a joke about how useless power levels are at this point as well at how outdated Frieza is sounds like something he would do. Also, I used the Abridge line to prove a point, not that they were actually thinking 'power levels are bullshit' and making a Dragon Ball Abridge reference. More like, power levels are worthless at this point.

I guess if you're jaded enough, you can see it as a mistake that somehow got past the editors.

I never once said that an island buster was the limit of his power. I said Goku tanked a island buster and only got his skin burnt. Unless you're trying to say that the mouth blast could destroy the moon, I don't see the point of bringing up that Piccolo can destroy the moon. Also, since Goku didn't feel Piccolo charging up, the mouth blast was most likely weak because it was a quick shot. It took Piccolo several minutes to make a blast that can destroy an island. Unless we're going with destroying an island is harder than destroying the moon.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:59:14 PM by Ramona122003

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35690: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:43:15 PM

Also, wasn't the Piccolo who blew up the Moon stronger than the Piccolo from the tournament anyway?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35691: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:49:09 PM

Piccolo that blew up the moon...was near the start of Gohan's training, so he shouldn't have been much stronger.

edited 11th Mar '16 9:49:31 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35692: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:51:42 PM

He had also been training for like 5 years in order to kill Goku.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#35693: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:53:28 PM

Uh, no. The moon has slightly less surface area than Asia. If Pluto isn't a planet anymore, then that means we did not have planet busters back then and wouldn't get one until Vegeta.

That is unless you're one of those holdouts who insists Pluto is still a planet. Then yes, we did have a planet buster as early as Muten Roshi Kameshin whatever.

This argument is strange though. Demongodofchaos said Naruto surpassed Dragon Ball in power scaling, so why is everyone having such a hard time coming up with convincing comparisons?(Haven't actually read Naruto, just played one of the video games)

Buldogue's lawyer
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35694: Mar 11th 2016 at 9:59:19 PM

To be fair, Pluto is a dwarf planet, so it's still technically a planet.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35695: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:02:02 PM

^^ It's a matter of scale. The fact that the moon is not technically a planet doesn't really mean much.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35696: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:03:59 PM

I don't see how it is a mistake. Toriyama read the manga again so he would know what base Frieza's level is and Toei checked the script and did make corrections like changing a line about Frieza meeting Bulma, so if it was mistake they would correct it.

Because writers aren't infallible and that's a different kind of mistake. Toriyama read the manga again for Battle of Gods, meaning he's not specifically looking at anything for Freeza. The fact that he did make a mistake regarding the Namek arc shows that his knowledge of these events aren't perfect. Even if he still remembered the line about Freeza being at 530,000 he might not have realized he wrote that for his base form or that the leaps in power since then are a lot larger.

Also, Toriyama did away with the power levels because the numbers were becoming too big to be impressive and he regretted the idea of power levels as soon as he made them since the one with the highest levels will always win, which is why he came up with power suppression and techniques that can pack a lot of power.

This is all a lie. Toriyama didn't say why he did away with them (since it happened at the same time scouters and Freeza's army left the series, I think it's more likely that it's something that stayed with them) and he never said he regretted them either. This is all things fans have either made up wholecloth or twisted his words to further their agenda on hating power levels.

So him making a joke about how useless power levels are at this point as well at out outdated Frieza is sounds like something he would do.

It doesn't make any sense as a joke at all and does not match his usual humour. There is no punchline, it's just a one-off line that doesn't make sense and isn't referenced anywhere else. He's a lot less subtle in his gags than that.

I guess if you're jaded enough, you can see it as a mistake that somehow got past the editors.

Realizing that even finalized works can still contains errors isn't jaded at all, knock it off with the accusations. It's just the most simple explanation that doesn't require jumping through hoops to explain.

He had also been training for like 5 years in order to kill Goku.

As I mentioned, he wasn't a whole lot stronger. Goku hadn't been training and their relevant position didn't change. The biggest difference was that he developed the Makankosappo.

This argument is strange though. Demongodofchaos said Naruto surpassed Dragon Ball in power scaling, so why is everyone having such a hard time coming up with convincing comparisons?(Haven't actually read Naruto, just played one of the video games)

Because I'm really not interested in this argument. DGOC's didn't justify his claim in the first place.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#35697: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:07:27 PM

No, Goku was still weight training. He just wasn't working out as hard as Piccolo had been.

Buldogue's lawyer
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#35698: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:10:06 PM

Let me throw my two cents into this heated argument: personally, I think that Bulma is hotter with purple hair, and I don't know why, but her current design and hairstyle is the hottest she's ever been, for me.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35699: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:10:24 PM

Wearing the weights isn't the same as doing dedicated training.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#35700: Mar 11th 2016 at 10:12:44 PM

I don't know who this Demongodofchaos guy is, but how on earth did he come to the conclusion that Naruto's power scaling is anywhere close to Dragon ball?


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