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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#35476: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:04:02 PM

... You're aware that his job was to engage in the purging of entire planetary populations, right?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35477: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:05:09 PM

We have no idea how many planets he did or their populations. Certainly a lot of people but we really have no basis for the exact number.

edited 9th Mar '16 3:05:46 PM by LSBK

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35478: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:05:17 PM

Billions doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Earth has billions of people on it and they were going to blow it up. The only reason reason I think it might not be that high is because the travel times between planets seems pretty long. But hey, maybe that's just because Frieza's sphere of influence is on the other side of the galaxy and he genocides people twice a week there since he doesn't have to go as far.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#35479: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:05:27 PM

Well, good thing the barbaric alien raised by a genocidal warlord managed to turn a new leaf and become a functional member of human society and a damn saviour of the Universe...

Plus, getting a pierced heart, getting his son killed AND blowing himself up to atorne for a costly relapse in judgment are kinda there. He got revived (and so did Future Trunks), but come the fuck on, you are getting annoying.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35480: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:05:59 PM

... You're aware that his job was to engage in the purging of entire planetary populations, right?

Okay, so? You're acting like there's a canon source on Vegeta's body count when it's nothing but hyperbole. All to make a rather irrelevant point on why Vegeta's treatment in Super is upsetting to some of you here.

edited 9th Mar '16 3:07:43 PM by VeryMelon

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35481: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:14:40 PM

It's a reasonable assumption though. And it's certainly a decent ballpark figure. Besides, let's say it's a thousand times more people than he actually did kill. His bodycount would still be in the millions. Is that any better?

For what it's worth, though, I don't care. All that happened offscreen and therefore doesn't count. Vegeta popped into existence the moment Raditz died and he tried to message him.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#35482: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:30:12 PM

Vegeta spent 31 years in Frieza's employ. He wasn't killing planets for all of that time given that some of that time was spent growing up from infancy - but at the same time, we already know that Saiyans were used as Child Soldiers so much of that time still probably counts.

As an interesting aside, Vegeta worked for Frieza for over 5x as long as the Saiyans did. They only spent six years in the genocide business.

edited 9th Mar '16 3:31:47 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35483: Mar 9th 2016 at 3:56:06 PM

Well, whether you think Vegeta still deserves to be shat on depends on whether you think he's redeemed himself.

Obviously IANCE does not think he has done so. Some think that his efforts in the Buu saga and his experiences post Frieza have earned him a bit of leeway.

Me. To quote Boromir: I care not.

We don't know if he regrets those times, or if he'd take responsibility if someone decided to make him pay for everything he did while working for Frieza or not, or if he even feels guilty. We do know that he would no longer kill just because he can, and will no longer genocide planets, and that he legitimately loves his wife and son.

...You know what? He's got a wife and son. That's good enough. I'm totally with IANCE. Keep beating the shit out of him.tongue

As long as we avoid a Revival of F type situation. From this point on, only Vegeta should pay for Vegeta's fuck ups.

edited 9th Mar '16 3:56:24 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35484: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:22:53 PM

Where is this information that the Saiyans only spent six years working for Frieza?

As for Vegeta not deserving anything because he was a Space Pirate, I can see where you are coming from but most of the characters are reformed villains, so it isn't like Vegeta is some kind of outliner. I mean, people wanted Buu to fight and win at the tournament and killed far more people, including the gods, than Vegeta. We also have the Beerus, the person hosting the tournament, who is a God of Destruction and was willing to destroy the Earth over not getting pudding and destroyed half a planet over greasy food. Let's not pretend we're rooting for saints here.

As long as Vegeta isn't (at least not purposely) causing things to get worse like he did the Cell and Buu Saga, I say Throw the Dog a Bone. I can't even really fault him for making Piccolo forfeit because having Frost walk a way all smug rubs me the wrong way and I want Vegeta turn Forst into paste.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#35485: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:25:16 PM

The thing is, Vegeta's likable only because the universe craps on him.

If it didn't, he'd just be one of the bad Rival characters you see in Shonen Action series all the damn time, and who also have a tendency to be the Creator's Pet.

And yes, you do know who I'd use as the most glaring example. Everyone knows.

edited 9th Mar '16 4:26:47 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35486: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:28:18 PM

I like Vegeta best when he's getting beat up too but come on, we only have titles here.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35487: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:33:49 PM

But if Vegeta has actually become a better person then you shouldn't need that to like him. Not to say that Vegeta has become pleasant but his most assholish behavior seems to be gone now.

And it's not like he isn't going to be inevitably batted around at some point in Super. It's just probably not going to be this tournament. And we can't even say for sure it won't happen here.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35488: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:36:27 PM

The universe craps on everyone in Dragon Ball except for maybe Whis and Vados. Toriyama has no problem doing really terrible things to his characters for the sake of humor or advancing the plot. The people a Kanzenshuu even notes how Toriyama is quite distract from his characters compared to other manga authors.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35489: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:50:59 PM

The thing is, Vegeta's likable only because the universe craps on him.

To some people here, sure. I used to have the same opinion but the last discussion on the subject changed my mind about it.

Vegeta needed to become a Butt-Monkey in order to make accepting his transition into a heroic character more tolerable for the some members of the audience. Now that he's done that by the end of the Buu Saga, acting like that's all he's allowed to do in order to be likable to you is a fine position to take as long as you admit that's all it is.

The issues with other Shonen rivals like Sasuke don't even come from the same source. Sasuke wasn't just bad because he was a unrepentant Karma Houdini, he was bad because the narrative was warped to accommodate the needs of his story starting from halfway into Naruto's run and going all the way to the end. The only time Vegeta's ever done that was getting God ki without the ritual, which was a bad plot development.

edited 9th Mar '16 4:53:58 PM by VeryMelon

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35490: Mar 9th 2016 at 4:52:54 PM

Vegeta also has a lot more humor and entertaining bravado to him than Sasuke does.

And he's a not-terrible father.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#35492: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:14:58 PM

Vegeta has enough slack built up by the heaps of abuse that have been put on him that he can get away with some gratification now and then. It's not like the series was constantly crapping on him all the time - in fact, generally, he did something that resulted in getting his ass whooped.

Thing is, if he's not an asshole, he's not Vegeta. So when you say "now that he's no longer an asshole", you're saying "now that he's no longer Vegeta".

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#35493: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:22:39 PM

Well, then he's no longer Vegeta, and the person he is now doesn't deserve as much abuse as Vegeta did. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing meta-wise, just stating an in-universe fact. If the universe keeps crapping on The Saiyan Formerly Known as Vegeta now he isn't a genocidal asshole and just a mild henpecked asshole, that's not going to help anyone he ever hurt anyway. Hell, the rest of the cast have just moved on and stopped hating on him, and they've better reasons to hate him than anyone else still alive.

edited 9th Mar '16 5:26:41 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35494: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:24:35 PM

I get it's being applied to a fictional character but saying that one trait so defining that even if they very gradually move away from it, they're a totally different person always struck me as very odd.

What's the point of character development then?

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#35495: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:26:08 PM

There's a line between Character Development and Character Derailment, but you will never find two people who agree on where that line is.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35496: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:27:00 PM

Starting arguments on the internet.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#35497: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:54:44 PM

Just because he isn't getting his face caved in doesn't mean that the universe can't punish him for his assholery. And just because he's less of an asshole doesn't mean he can't still be an asshole.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#35498: Mar 9th 2016 at 5:57:26 PM

Technically, Beerus, great and amusing as he is, is much more of an unrepentant asshole by this point, and has likely killed thousands more times people than Vegeta ever did even out of his 'duties', and yet it'd feel wrong if he started being a Butt-Monkey punching bag now.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#35499: Mar 9th 2016 at 6:01:22 PM

Different kind of character, though.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35500: Mar 9th 2016 at 6:03:08 PM

[up][up]Yeah, but like Galactus, that's his purpose in life. "God of Destruction" isn't really so when he doesn't destroy things. He even gets annoyed in ROF about saving a planet from destruction.

Speaking of which, there's a timeline where Frieza blew up Earth, and Whis sent the survivors back in time to stop it. A potential timeline where Frieza was said to have survived the blast.

'Golden Mecha Frieza' for Dragonball Heroes.

edited 9th Mar '16 6:06:06 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

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