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Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#34751: Feb 29th 2016 at 9:00:51 PM

But what about people who will watch Super in the future, just tell them to watch movies before seeing the series? It also comes off as a bit of Fan Myopia. I saw the movies, I know this information, therefore I shouldn't be forced to re-watch this. As for cutting the movies into Super kind of like what Toonami did with the old Dragon Ball movies in the 90s, I guess it could have worked, and then people would just call TOEI cheap. I don't see what pride in your work have to do with this.

Also, the adaptions have stuff that happened between the movies, like Goku and Vegeta's training with Whis which takes place over a wider timeframe than the movie and what everyone else was doing in this time of peace that would look awkward if they animate that and then stick the movies in.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#34752: Feb 29th 2016 at 9:20:37 PM

You know, I kind of like how Universe 6's version of Freeza is a superhero.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#34753: Feb 29th 2016 at 9:39:34 PM

I find that funny too. Almost everyone else we know, including everyone in U7, is fighting for fun, glory, and to test themselves, while Frost is actually fighting for others, making him by far the most noble person at the tournament.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#34755: Feb 29th 2016 at 10:08:32 PM

Just another reason to like Frost.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#34756: Feb 29th 2016 at 10:49:17 PM

If Frost did poison Goku, it's probably because he's extremely eager to have Champa as his crime-fighting sidekick.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#34757: Feb 29th 2016 at 10:53:03 PM

Or he knew that Goku was going to kick his ass and wanted to win, so he used cleverness when he knew he was outmatched in brute force. He's the nicest guy ever, I'm sure it was a temporary stunning thing and nothing serious.

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34758: Feb 29th 2016 at 11:17:10 PM

-UNIVERSE. WE'LL ALWAYS-

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34759: Mar 1st 2016 at 6:31:39 AM

[up][up][up]Is that actually what he's supposed to be getting out of this?

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#34760: Mar 1st 2016 at 7:05:38 AM

The deal Vados made with Frost is that he will get Champa's support to stop wars if he wins. If he loses, he gets nothing, something Champa himself said is kind of cruel.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#34761: Mar 1st 2016 at 7:50:35 AM

If it's a biological feature, Frieza might not have even known he had it. He didn't need it. He was the most powerful being in the entire universe. There was never a situation where the ability to shoot a paralyzing dart from his wrist would be more valuable than the ability to obliterate anyone who questions him with a stern glance.

At 1,000x more powerful than the next-most powerful person in the universe, he had no competition. Nobody could match him to the level where he would need the extra edge. By the time he was facing Super Saiyan Goku, it was a little late to start learning new tricks.

edited 1st Mar '16 7:51:16 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34762: Mar 1st 2016 at 8:38:46 AM

Makes sense.

I don't know though. I still think a natural ability like that would be impossible to not know about.

I mean, isn't that the kind of thing that would trigger on instinct if you were in danger, like say, when a Super Saiyan was stomping you into the ground?

I think it's just something Frost has that Frieza doesn't.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#34763: Mar 1st 2016 at 8:46:07 AM

Eh, he wouldn't be the first person to be ignorant of his own biological abilities.

Vegeta's the only Saiyan that seemed to know about zenkai boosts. I'm sure Raditz and Nappa were aware, but I'm not sure if Gohan or Goku ever even learned about them. The Super Saiyan transformation, meanwhile, is shrouded in myth until Goku actually does it.

Piccolo had no idea about Namekian Fusion until Nail explained it to him.

Even the humans have this issue, because most of the human population is ignorant that ki exists. Mr. Satan has the biological capability to fly, shoot energy beams, and do all the other stuff the likes of Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha can do, but he can't do it because he doesn't know how. He's never learned.

Think about this: Even if Frieza knows he can shoot a shitty little dart from his wrist, how would he know it paralyzes people without testing it? If he's never even given it the slightest thought because it pales in comparison to the immense power he can produce, why would he think to use it against Goku?

This is the fundamental disadvantage to being the most powerful person in the universe by birth: when all you need is a sledgehammer, you don't bother exploring other techniques.

edited 1st Mar '16 8:50:29 AM by TobiasDrake

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#34764: Mar 1st 2016 at 8:52:51 AM

Well actually, Hercule actually did try to learn how to fly at one point, he even managed to get off the ground. It's just that, that kind of went nowhere after that.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34765: Mar 1st 2016 at 8:57:30 AM

[up][up]So you don't think Frieza's father would bother to mention it.

I mean, there are some excuses for most of the other examples:

  • Goku, Gohan, and Piccolo no nothing of their people due to being raised away from them, so it makes sense they wouldn't know about their races respective abilities.

  • Mr. Satan and the rest of the world knowing nothing about Ki can be explained by a two things:

(1) That high level of martial arts not being well known (the tournaments were never televised until sometime between the one that Goku finally won, and the Buu saga) so only people who saw the matches in early Dragonball would know about them, and then Mr. Satan coming along and saying it was all bullshit

2) Toriyama doesn't care to have any other characters learn to do those things, plus even if they learned it would be irrelevant since the humans have long since been surpassed by everyone (as you have mentioned quite often).

However, I find it hard to believe Frieza's own dad never bothered to mention that thing their race can do to his son at any point in their lives.

edited 1st Mar '16 8:57:48 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#34766: Mar 1st 2016 at 8:59:23 AM

Why would he? He's also extraordinarily powerful, outpaced only by Frieza himself. All the reasons why Frieza wouldn't know about it can also apply to Cold.

Keep in mind that, like Goku, Gohan, and Piccolo, Frieza and Cold appear to have no ties to their race to the point that their species doesn't even have a name.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:00:42 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34767: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:04:25 AM

There species has no name because Toriyama doesn't want to name them for some reason.

The way I see it, there are a few options:

1) Frieza has it and doesn't know like you believe;

2) He doesn't have it due to being a mutant;

3) Goku being knocked out was due to something else and this is pointless.

I prefer the last two myself, but we'll see this Sunday.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#34768: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:08:03 AM

George Lucas didn't want to name Yoda's species.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34769: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:08:09 AM

Retcons are a thing people. If it does turn out to be the case that that's what Frost did, I think it's a pretty clever way of having him win in a situation in which he otherwise wouldn't.

If you really need an explanation for why Frieza never used it, just think of him being too infuriating by the idea that he was overpowered by a Saiyan monkey to think rationally or think that using a dart was beneath him.

As for Cold...honestly who cares you could probably say the same thing about him as Frieza.

This should not be a big thing.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:08:40 AM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34770: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:10:22 AM

Toriyama doesn't want to name them because they have nothing to do with Frieza so their species is irrelevant. So far as he's concerned, Frieza and Cold are exceptional mutant individuals rather than representatives of one species or another.

About how many of Freeza’s race are there? Are they quite thriving, with a big population?

Freeza is what you might call a mutated life-form. Strictly speaking, Freeza’s father is a mutant with an abnormally high battle power. And, born from his father alone, still in strong possession of the mutant traits, was Freeza.

Accordingly, even saying “Freeza’s race”, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal [level of] battle power and cruelty.

When asked about their species, he deflects the question to point out that Frieza and Cold are unique and special snowflakes.

[up] Eh, it makes perfect sense to me that Frieza never bothered exploring his more subtle biological weapons when he could obliterate planets by flexing too hard.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:11:56 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34771: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:19:42 AM

Ok. I can get that.

I don't like it (if you create a character who's part of a species, you should give that species a name), but there are a lot of things Toriyama does that irk me when they likely shouldn't.

As for Retcons, I can deal with that as well. I mean, we've gone over how the Android / Cell saga should probably be re-named the Retcon saga.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#34772: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:39:14 AM

Thing is Frieza trained after he got humiliated by Goku and came up with a backup just in case he lost again. So the argument that he never needed a possible biological paralyzing technique falls flat since for the first time in his life Frieza was fighting an opponent he thought he could possibly lose to, showing a bit of humility. So him learning he has some biological paralyzing move would have been extremely helpful after his power ran out and he was getting his butt handed to him by Goku. It would have been even more helpful when Vegeta beat the crap out of him and was about to kill him. So, I can really buy the explanation that he never needed it, especially since he went out of way to create a new transformation, something that not even Frost has.

I should also add in Super that Frieza did have a test dummy, his name was Tagoma. He used him for four months to test different torture techniques. So him unlocking a biological stun technique would have happened there.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:45:26 AM by Ramona122003

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#34773: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:45:55 AM

Frieza did all that training by himself. He would still need an opportunity to learn about it.

The only thing that being able to shoot a dart from his wrist proves is that he can shoot a dart from his wrist. To discover its paralyzing effects, he would need to paralyze someone with it, which means a situation would have to come up in which he's forced to shoot the dart at someone.

As a defense mechanism, Frieza would never fall back on the dart because his other abilities are so much better.

During training, Frieza would never fall back on the dart because his other abilities are so much better.

When attacking a world, Frieza would never fall back on the dart because his other abilities are so much better.

Frieza would never use a worthless dart in combat over his immense power, so he would never have the opportunity to learn that it paralyzes targets. He's too powerful and too focused on his immense power to ever learn the ins and outs of such a subtle ability.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:46:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34774: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:46:23 AM

Remember that Frost is hundreds of times stronger than Freeza was in his own first appearance. Unless the average Power Level in U6 is WAY higher than in U7, Frost should've encountered even less opposition than Freeza did.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:46:49 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#34775: Mar 1st 2016 at 9:47:25 AM

Frost is also a hero. His first, last, and only form of conflict resolution probably isn't "Annihilate with extreme prejudice." He would have motivation to explore less lethal combat options.

Frieza has no reason to ever find out what that little dart in his wrist does.

edited 1st Mar '16 9:47:54 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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