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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33501: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:30:53 PM

[up]x4 Yeah I came up with that theory before. My theory was that "base" Goku was really more like Ultimate Goku - so he is his own SS3 level without transforming, which sort of frees up Super Saiyan to be used to draw out the power of Super Saiyan God instead of his own dormant power.

That makes his power as a base Saiyan and dropping Super Saiyan 2/3 feel a lot less random. Both would be explained by this change.

But there's a lot of lines in Super and other materials that imply Goku isn't so weak, including a lot of things that suggest that base Goku is using Super Saiyan God's power (which doesn't make much sense) or has even surpassed it (which makes much less sense). There are a lot of interpretations going on right now.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#33502: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:31:18 PM

I find it interesting that we count half-saiyans under saiyans, but not under humans.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33503: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:34:37 PM

That's because most official sources tend to do so, and they're referred to as Saiyans in the manga (also half-Saiyans, never Earthlings).

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#33504: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:35:28 PM

The Saiyan half is the half that matters in the story.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33505: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:38:49 PM

Well, the human half did matter... for making the Saiyan half stronger.

Now that Goku and Vegeta are elevated above the rest of the cast, it probably won't be relevant again.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33506: Jan 30th 2016 at 10:38:59 PM

I count half-Saiyans as Humans.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#33507: Jan 30th 2016 at 11:43:13 PM

Why are Bulma, Tights and their mom so young for their ages?

They're 46, 59 and 71 respectively.

EDIT: Also, I just realized, both Dr. and Mrs. Briefs had Tights when they were both... 12.

edited 30th Jan '16 11:44:54 PM by Rinsankajugin

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33508: Jan 30th 2016 at 11:52:36 PM

[up]UMM.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33509: Jan 31st 2016 at 12:02:02 AM

...I'm just going to assume that SKOT is really bad at her job.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33510: Jan 31st 2016 at 12:04:17 AM

Y'know it's a missed opportunity that she never addresses Cell's time travel fuckery. We get an explanation for why she's overlooked Trunks' (she does seem more lenient if it's for benevolent purposes) but I guess the Cell situation solved itself before she could be bothered to get involved.

I still think it should have been brought up again in Xenoverse or something, especially since Cell appears in two timelines where she could have addressed it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33511: Jan 31st 2016 at 12:05:11 AM

That or Toribot doesn't know how to time.

Someone in charge of chronology dropped the ball where the Briefs family is concerned.

edited 31st Jan '16 12:06:03 AM by unnoun

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#33512: Jan 31st 2016 at 12:24:23 AM

Or precocial puberty hit both of 'em.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#33513: Jan 31st 2016 at 1:11:12 AM

Actually there's a line in Xenoverse where S Ko T said she was going to deal with Cell before Trunks and the others handled that problem.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#33514: Jan 31st 2016 at 1:14:35 AM

Yeah I came up with that theory before. My theory was that "base" Goku was really more like Ultimate Goku - so he is his own SS3 level without transforming, which sort of frees up Super Saiyan to be used to draw out the power of Super Saiyan God instead of his own dormant power.

Wait, wouldn't that mean Super Saiyan Blue, and by proxi Super Saiyan God, is only a 20,000x boost?

edited 31st Jan '16 1:15:15 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33515: Jan 31st 2016 at 1:36:12 AM

Either 'base' Goku gets stronger, which contradicts this theory, or Super Saiyan Blue is not a set multiplier.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33516: Jan 31st 2016 at 3:17:29 AM

[up][up] yeah it would, but it could still work. I crunched the numbers to compare to Vegetto and as long as you're conservative with the Boo arc escalation it works.

But I doubt current base Goku being "Ultimate" will ever actually be proven by the show itself. I don't think that much thought was put behind his new base or how strong it is.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#33517: Jan 31st 2016 at 3:31:57 AM

What numbers are you talking about in this case?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33518: Jan 31st 2016 at 3:58:00 AM

Well, whether the idea of Super Saiyan God being 50x SS3/Ultimate Goku works with Vegetto not being able to defeat Beerus.

I know I previously said that I could see SSG being like a 40,000x multiplier but that was just based on a rough idea of Vegetto being 100x stronger than Goku. I don't think he needs to be that much stronger for the Boo arc to work out.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#33519: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:13:59 AM

Except two things: 1, you did that because you had Super Vegetto as being 4000x stronger than Goku or 10x stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, which would have made SS3 Vegetto 32,000x stronger than Goku; 2, how does this affect Golden Ōzaru and Super Saiyan 4 then, since you made those a 4000 and 40,000x boost respectively.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#33520: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:14:23 AM

It's not like Goku power is static through Super. He's much stronger now than he was before Whis training, and he will get stronger in the future. So assigning some arbitrary equivalence of base Goku now = SSJ3 Goku in Buu saga makes no sense.

Besides base Goku and Fourth form Freeza sure seemed a lot stronger than SSJ3 level, judging from reactions.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33521: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:32:07 AM

[up][up] It doesn't effect those at all because that's GT.

And I don't have Vegetto that strong, it was just an example. He's close to that and by these numbers SSG Goku would have to end up weaker than SS3 Vegetto, with both being weaker than Beerus.

[up] I'm not saying base Goku now is equal to Boo arc Super Saiyan 3 Goku. I'm saying he's effectively using his Super Saiyan 3 power without transforming. That level of power isn't static. He would have started at that level and then become stronger through Whis' training.

And considering that his SSB is supposed to be weaker than Beerus still, I don't think he has improved too much from Whis' training. So he'd still be in the range of a Super Saiyan 3.

No-one who spectated the Goku vs Freeza fight was currently SS3 tier. Gohan formerly was, but he was still blown away by Tagoma's power who is nowhere near that. So I don't think anyone's reactions disprove that.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33522: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:51:55 AM

Can I just say that it is REALLY funny that Goku vs Uub was originally used to argue that base Goku was SS3 level with the consensus being that was WAY too high and, right now, that same fight is used to argue the same point, with the consensus being that is WAY too low?

edited 31st Jan '16 4:56:53 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33523: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:55:02 AM

Putting it in [= =] brackets.

edited 31st Jan '16 4:55:11 AM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33524: Jan 31st 2016 at 4:57:16 AM

Wow, that's going to really help.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#33525: Jan 31st 2016 at 8:44:09 AM

New episode of Super.

I like how Vados just drags the six Super Dragon Balls in tow, as if they weren't planet sized. And then creates a barrier that Champa can't break, atmosphere, and whole stadium from nothing. Damn, the space magic is amazing.

Honestly, I can't wait when someone beats Beerus, he's getting rather annoying with his high and mighty attitude.

Tights makes her anime debut. People who didn't read Jaco must be confused as hell about now.

Oh yeah, Vegeta is an errand boy now.

edited 31st Jan '16 8:44:34 AM by Shlugo_the_great


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