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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#32851: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:11:05 PM

Hey! He dodged his responsibility as Earth's protector just fine!

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#32853: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:34:36 PM

He did a really bad job dodging Videl's attack once.

edited 16th Jan '16 8:34:49 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32854: Jan 16th 2016 at 8:36:38 PM

He dodged Goten's mighty Rock Throw Attack fine.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#32855: Jan 16th 2016 at 9:19:21 PM

I feel the need to point out that Super Boo's genocide attack was done after he had killed ~80% of the population of the Earth the old fashioned way.

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Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#32856: Jan 16th 2016 at 9:41:53 PM

It also wasn't able to hit Tien.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#32857: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:03:45 PM

And I'd think 17 should have been ok as well. I mean, the blasts probably weren't super powerful, and if Tien and Chiaoutzu could dodge, 17 could probably either tank it, or block them... if he saw them coming that is.

One Strip! One Strip!
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#32858: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:29:08 PM

The fact that Ten even HAD to dodge is impressive, since it implies that each of the literally billions of blast Buu fired without exerting himself contained enough energy to blow up the Earth hundreds of times over.[1] It says something that Buu considered that level of power worth absolutely nothing. The equivalent of you or I blowing away some dust. It's not like Buu bothered to differentiate the blasts based on target, otherwise he wouldn't have fired one slowly enough that Ten could dodge at all.

[1]As explained in the guidebooks' blurbs about the Super Kamehameha and Big Bang Attack, all attacks that can actually hurt characters past Raditz contain that level of energy, just magically condensed in a small area. Piccolo could casually turn the moon into dust with one attack in the early Saiyan arc, in a massively overkill way. That's already planet busting level, and Ten should be hundreds of times stronger than Piccolo's 408 by thay point.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#32859: Jan 16th 2016 at 10:48:01 PM

You don't even need that information from the guidebooks, Trunks explains that himself when he realizes Vegeta was able to release ridiculous amounts of energy that should have destroyed the Earth but(somehow) managed to keep it focused on Cell.

The fact that Trunks apparently couldn't do this until he saw Vegeta do it raises a lot of Fridge Logic though. Gohan was apparently an incompetent teacher yet Trunks still became a super saiyan?

edited 16th Jan '16 10:50:12 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#32860: Jan 17th 2016 at 12:29:58 AM

Tenshinhan dies and he's the one that goes to King Kai's planet and learns the Genki Dama and the Kaioken while they wait for the saiyans to arrive.

Man. I wish Toriyama hadn't just abandoned Kaiouken.

Yeah, I know I keep bringing this up, and I know that Super Saiyan is far more useful, but it just annoys me.

This is why you plan shit out just a little. I mean, I guess he must of thought ahead in some regards, but not as far as he should. It all still worked out, but I feel like the series would be even better if he'd written down a notes on where he wanted to go.

It's not that Super Saiyan is more useful. It's that Kaio-ken was an extremely problematic concept that needed to be dropped as quickly as possible before spread to everyone. Think Super Saiyan but worse. Anyone not using Kaio-ken isn't showing their best, so you'd either need contrived ways for every villain to pick it up or accept that the heroes are winning because the deck is always stacked in their favour.

To have Kaio-ken still be used in the story you'd need better ways to justify some, but not all, having it. If it's still prominent and Piccolo doesn't get it people cry unfair, if he does then it overshadows his unique and more personal power-ups.

@All of this

God and Daimao split because God cast out his evil half. You want the Namekians to try giving birth to an entire race of evil beings as step one of this gambit?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#32861: Jan 17th 2016 at 1:16:07 AM

...Yes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#32862: Jan 17th 2016 at 1:46:28 AM

Apparently Vegeta became a god by pure will, and not by ritual.

Man, Geet's would have some serious potential if he weren't so stubborn, but maybe some character development in DBS could fix that.

Also, I wonder if training with Gohan will boost Piccolo's power a ton. It could explain why he was chosen for the tournament.

Also, Piccolo can eat if he wants to, but he doesn't leave his friends behind.

edited 17th Jan '16 1:50:12 AM by Rinsankajugin

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32863: Jan 17th 2016 at 2:33:12 AM

Gentlemen. Join me in mourning Alan Rickman because I just realized that he would've been a great live-action Taopaipai.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#32865: Jan 17th 2016 at 2:55:41 AM

It feels like Toei REALLY likes Vegeta nowadays. Like, they like him to the point that he's a better fighter than Goku. In Super, he picks up Freeza's weakness first, he gets God...because he's just that awesome, his relationship is the only one that causes rage boosts...

Maybe it's just because I don't like Vegeta. But I swear, they're giving him a lot of attention. Almost too much. Like, I don't think this is good writing.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32866: Jan 17th 2016 at 2:57:27 AM

The voice, the acting chops, the Cool Old Guy. The only thing off is Taopaipai (probably) being Chinese and I personally think that the pros would out-weigh the cons for this casting decision.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#32867: Jan 17th 2016 at 3:03:34 AM

You should be able to tell a character's getting bad writing, regardless of how you feel about them.

The writing is usually what determines your tolerance of a character and besides noticing Freezerator's weakness first, that does sound bad.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#32868: Jan 17th 2016 at 3:46:38 AM

Giving a lot of attention to a secondary character isn't necessarily bad writing, and Toei haven't done much but add on to Toriyama's own preferential treatment of Vegeta.

Him being the one to discover Freeza's weakness isn't so bad. His role was pretty much pointless in the original movie, this makes it feel less so.

His rage boost is from Watanabe, not Toei, and Toriyama kept it in his script. The God thing isn't necessarily because he's special - Super seems to take the stance that Super Saiyan God isn't needed for SSGSS, and all it mattered for is a power boost for Goku that Whis' training made irrelevant anyway. It's not that Vegeta is awesome, but that Godly powers are laughably easy to obtain (arguably much worse writing). The original movie didn't even explain it.

And to be honest anything important that wasn't going to Vegeta would likely just be more for Goku, so I don't give much of a crap. They're both overexposed at this point.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#32869: Jan 17th 2016 at 3:48:42 AM

He did a really bad job dodging Videl's attack once.

Did he want to dodge it?wink

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32870: Jan 17th 2016 at 3:57:17 AM

Okay, on the one hand, I really like Vegeta being stronger than Goku the one time he's mellowed out and training under a master and wearing an apron. I love that dynamic. On the other hand, Vegeta getting to God level just from training is painful amounts of stupid that I can barely tolerate. What would be a good compromise that keeps both of these intact?

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#32871: Jan 17th 2016 at 4:00:42 AM

[up][up][up]

How can the main character be overexposed? Isn't the point of a main character to get most of the focus?

As for Vegeta, he got God mode by training yes, but by training with the strongest being in their universe and it doesn't seem like it was easy.

edited 17th Jan '16 4:02:08 AM by Cortez

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#32872: Jan 17th 2016 at 4:01:41 AM

Two different ways to do that, I guess

1) Goku doesn't get stupidly powerful to begin with so regular training can conceivably surpass him

2) Vegeta undergoes the ritual to start on even footing with Goku before any training

[up] By getting too much. Being the main character doesn't mean any amount of focus is good for them.

That's also not really the point of the main character, you can have one that doesn't actually get much focus (like Goku in some parts of the manga).

Just saying "the training is hard" is a pretty poor excuse. What we saw just made it look like the same old shtick, why it was so much more effective wasn't explored.

Whis is strong but it's not like he's literally siphoning his strength into them. If he tells someone "do a push up" they won't benefit more from it than Roshi doing the same.

As the series progressed the new training methods had something new to them to justify how effective they are. The closest we've had to something new is Whis' staff, which has just been ROSAT again.

edited 17th Jan '16 4:05:57 AM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#32873: Jan 17th 2016 at 4:22:08 AM

Maybe it's where they trained that makes the difference? I mean, Vegeta probably did the same kind of training in the Hyperbaric Tank Charger that he did in the Gravity Room, but it was just more effective in the former because it was a harsher environment.

Maybe Whis took them to a place where the training became godlike in effectiveness... literally... and so in that place Vegeta could become a God through training. Maybe the air they're breathing is increasing their ranking in the Divinity skill until they get to EX and become actual gods?

edited 17th Jan '16 4:22:43 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#32874: Jan 17th 2016 at 4:26:01 AM

You either have no ritual at all or have Vegeta go through the ritual, shouldn't need to be a compromise for that. It's still called Super Saiyan God, technically...don't cut out the middle step.

There's no reason Vegeta should be so superior as to not need the ritual.

edited 17th Jan '16 4:27:42 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32875: Jan 17th 2016 at 5:14:37 AM

Maybe being around Whis and Beerus their godliness rubs off on you.

In Xenoverse Beerus can teach you how to use Godly Ki, so. Eh.

And I'd think 17 should have been ok as well. I mean, the blasts probably weren't super powerful, and if Tien and Chiaoutzu could dodge, 17 could probably either tank it, or block them... if he saw them coming that is.

I would question whether 17 even had a blast sent at him, considering Buu can't sense his energy.


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