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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31851: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:10:25 AM

I see your point, but as a counterpoint, he still attempted to spare Frieza's life twice and was content to stand idly by and allow Frieza to power up to 100% while he was a Super Saiyan. Yes, it was a Cruel Mercy, but it still showed that Goku had plenty of control over his actions before he escaped Namek. He was more aggressive, but he was also far from a mindless rage monster that would destroy the Earth.

edited 31st Dec '15 7:12:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31852: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:13:05 AM

[up] You offer your counterpoint and proceed to disprove your counterpoint. Goku wanted to leave Freeza as a broken shell of his former self. He wanted Freeza to live knowing that he had been utterly humiliated even at his strongest and there was nothing he could do about it. As soon as it was apparent that wasn't going to be a thing, Goku killed him.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31853: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:14:15 AM

No, he didn't. He counterattacked the beam Frieza stupidly launched at him. Frieza had to force Goku to finish him off, and even that wasn't even enough to actually do the deed.

Keeping in mind that Goku has previously killed plenty of people in his Base form and is not a Pacifist by any version of the concept.

edited 31st Dec '15 7:16:38 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31854: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:17:26 AM

What you said doesn't disprove what I said. That beam attack that he countered was what proved that leaving Freeza a broken shell of his former self wasn't going to happen. Also, it's not Goku's fault that Freeza displayed a ridiculous amount of survivability that was unprecedented at that point.

I never once called Goku a pacifist and I never once claimed that he didn't kill anyone.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31855: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:25:56 AM

The beam attack that he countered was an attack flying at his face that he needed to deal with. Goku responding to that with violent force is not a carefully calculated choice made to kill an adversary. It's Goku responding to an attack flying at his face.

The fact is, you claim that Goku needed to remain on Yardrat or else he would be a danger to the Earth and kill tons of people the next time he transforms but this is not supported. Goku is no less merciful to Frieza than he was to Piccolo Daimao, to the Red Ribbon Army, to the Saiyans, to the Ginyu Force.

Furthermore, it's never indicated that mastering the Super Saiyan form had anything to do with Goku's motivation for remaining on Yardrat. When the wish to resurrect him is made, he simply refuses to return for no stated reason. When he arrives and is asked why he took so long returning, he explains,

"Well, I didn't have much time, so I only had them teach me one technique and even that was a real pain to learn."

and then goes on to explain the Instant Transmission / Instantaneous Movement / Shunkan Ido. By his own admission, the only training he did on the planet was learning the teleportation. The rest of his time was recuperating and transit, which wouldn't be a problem if he hadn't refused to be teleported home for it.

edited 31st Dec '15 7:27:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31856: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:26:55 AM

Didn't the Porunga say that Goku was trying to master Super Saiyan (and gain control over it so he could transform at will) when Goku refused to be teleported.

Why is it hard to believe he worked on learning to use it while learning instant transmission on Yardrat? I mean, he knew it changed him significantly compared to his usual self, so it makes sense.

As for not being full powered at that point, maybe it never occurred to him to try that until the room of time and spirit.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31857: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:33:32 AM

  • PORUNGA: He refuses to come back. He says he will return on his own time.
  • GOHAN: He refused? But why?
  • KAME-SENNIN: I know why! It's because that man is terrified of his own wife! The real strongest being in the universe is Son Goku's WIFE!!
  • CHI-CHI: (brandishes sword)
  • KAME-SENNIN: Heh...j-joking!! I'm joking!!
  • PICCOLO: He said he would come back on his own in due time. We may as well use this chance to bring back someone still at Kaio's.

That is all that's said on the matter during the conversation with Porunga. No reason is ever given except for Kame-sennin's obvious joke, and the only reason Goku provides when he does return is that he was recuperating on Yardrat and then he wanted to learn Shunkan Ido. Goku trying to master Super Saiyan is never even hinted at.

edited 31st Dec '15 8:34:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31858: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:37:59 AM

Huh.

I stand corrected.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#31859: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:59:44 AM

I still think it's what happened though, whatever Porunga said.

edited 31st Dec '15 9:00:16 AM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31861: Dec 31st 2015 at 11:09:04 AM

I don't know what I just read, and I don't know why I'm crying right now.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#31862: Dec 31st 2015 at 11:10:06 AM

Silly internet comments and because several onions were destroyed.

edited 31st Dec '15 11:10:23 AM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#31863: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:24:14 PM

It's all ogre now.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31864: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:23:52 PM

Incidentally, Instant Transmission might just be the single most lethal technique in Goku's arsenal, despite being ostensibly not an attack.

Against a non regenerating opponent that Goku can actually hurt and/or kill, an Instant Kamehameha is pretty much an instant win.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31865: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:05:51 PM

[up]

Agreed. I'm surprised Goku doesn't use it the way he did against Cell. It'd compensate for those times when his enemy is faster by letting him zip around the battlefield quite quickly.

And if his opponent can sense ki, they'd likely lose track of him.

I re-call that scene from Return of Coola where he and Coola were doing exactly that. And I think he did something like that in the movie version of Battle Of Gods as well right?

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#31866: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:30:13 PM

I like the first instance of this better because you can tell just how desperate Goku is to win at that point. The second time though, Beerus doesn't see it coming at all.

Damn it. The more I rewatch this, the more I see why everybody says the Frieza rematch was lame.

edited 31st Dec '15 8:48:54 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31867: Dec 31st 2015 at 8:40:15 PM

I still really love BoG.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#31868: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:12:00 AM

Instant Transsmion saved them on so many occasion. Cell explosion, getting Dendy from Namek, saving Piccolo from Cell etc.

Agreed. I'm surprised Goku doesn't use it the way he did against Cell.

Well, in the Buu saga he only fights Yakon, who's so much weaker that there's no point, Veget who he doesn't want to kill, and Buu who he can hit just fine, but who has even better regeneration than Cell. Not much place to use it.

He does use it against Beerus tho.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31869: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:21:48 PM

I don't know what this "Instant Transsmion" is, but it sounds like something that TFS would have Goku say.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#31870: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:31:49 PM

[up]Hypertonic Lion Tamer.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31871: Jan 1st 2016 at 11:46:02 PM

[up]Didn't I already explain that was a Boston Crab, in detail?

edited 1st Jan '16 11:46:20 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31872: Jan 2nd 2016 at 1:41:28 PM

So here are two random thoughts:

1) Toriyama has said 17 and 18 can grow stronger if they actually train. Considering they were more powerful than an untrained Frieza by accident, I wonder how powerful they could grow. They'd be total game breakers if they bothered, since they can't get tired....well, unless Beerus, Whis, or most version of Buu came into the picture....or Dabura landed a lucky loogie).

2) And I've asked this before, but how small do you think the gap has to be for a weaker fighter to beat a stronger one. We know, without any doubt, that with a few exceptions, the warrior with the higher power level wins. No bullshitting. Nappa was 4000. Piccolo was 3500. A 500 number gap was still enough for Piccolo to be hopelessly outmatched along with the rest of them, but there has to be a point where the difference is so small that being the weaker fighter is academic.

I hope this one catches on. I know it's still kinda about Power Levels, but I tried to put a new spin on it. Plus, I'm curious to what everyone else thinks.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31873: Jan 2nd 2016 at 2:07:34 PM

I think when the stronger fighter is 10% or less stronger, it is more in favor of the stronger guy, but it could go either way. A 30% strength difference is insurmountable unless you get a lucky shot with a huge Ki attack.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31874: Jan 2nd 2016 at 2:52:54 PM

When has a weaker fighter ever beaten a stronger one in this series?

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#31875: Jan 2nd 2016 at 2:58:19 PM

You what Goku's Instant Transimssion couldn't beat in speed?

The Flash.

Watch Symphogear

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