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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31751: Dec 29th 2015 at 9:59:41 AM

The reason people get mad about Vegeta/Bulma, I think, isn't solely or even primarily due to caring about Yamcha's feelings. It's the moral principle of the thing. Here is a guy who murdered a man and later the girl that man had been with most of the series gets knocked up and shacks up with the murderer.

The thing is, I think a lot of DBZ fans are like me. We're Late 20-somethings who watched DBZ on Toonami back in the day. Thus, we were dumb babbies and teenagers who saw this "edgy" protagonist we could root for. He wasn't a goody-goody like the other pussy heroes. He didn't take no guff from anyone. He really contrasted with Funi's Generic Good Guy Goku and appealed to me.

But, as time had elapsed and we all have matured, we've realized Vegeta's character is a bag of dicks. I mean that in both the writing and the actual character. He gets away with far more than any other reformed antagonist, none of which we even know killed anyone. We know for certain Vegeta killed A LOT of people, including innocents. Never once does he express any real remorse for this, either.

But he gets the girl. He gets the family. Thus there's been a huge backlash in the fandom against both the fandom that utterly fails to recognize how evil Vegeta is, and the series' blatant favoritism because of that popularity.

edited 29th Dec '15 10:00:47 AM by Nikkolas

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31752: Dec 29th 2015 at 10:25:09 AM

And since we were talking about Yamcha, it should be noted that while the fanbase makes a huge fuss about Bulma leaving him for Vegeta, it's to his credit that Yamcha doesn't make a very big deal of it. By the end of the Cell Saga, he's moved on and has a new girlfriend. In fact, we rarely see him angst over it at all. If anything, he seems perfectly content with whatever life he's living offscreen in the Buu arc. After his relationship with Bulma ends, he's pretty upbeat.

Wouldn't you be? You're the one who loves going on about what terrible people all the characters (except Gohan) and especially Bulma and Vegeta are.

And I see your point. Except for me I'd argue more that there really isn't much substance to most of them and not that they're all, strictly speaking, terrible people. Except for Bulma and Vegeta.

But, yeah, I suppose him not acting like he has any particular right to be with Bulma is cool, even if it probably only happened because Toriyama didn't want spend even a little time focusing on the relationship drama.

edited 29th Dec '15 10:27:30 AM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31753: Dec 29th 2015 at 10:37:09 AM

Well I can't blame Toriyama for that. No-one wants to focus on relationship drama.

Not that it matters. The jokes will never end, so I'm just gonna ruin everything for everyone with all the power at my disposal accept it.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31754: Dec 29th 2015 at 10:39:16 AM

Toriyama knew he was terrible at writing romance so he had it all happen offscreen. This is probably for the best. How many beloved Works have been Strangled by the Red String? How many obnoxious Romantic Plot Tumors have we all seen?

Bulma and Yamcha's relationship happened entirely offscreen, progressing during timeskips with only the occasional mention of how shitty it is.

Goku and Chi-Chi got married and had a child offscreen during a timeskip.

Bulma broke up with Yamcha offscreen, then she and Vegeta had a child offscreen during a timeskip. They became an actual couple offscreen during a separate timeskip, once Vegeta had learned to value his son.

Krillin and 18 built a relationship, got married, and had a daughter during a timeskip.

Rather than try to write romance poorly, Toriyama gives us just enough to understand the bare foundations of these relationships, then skips forward and shows us the result.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31755: Dec 29th 2015 at 10:40:19 AM

Which is honestly the best thing to do if you know you can't write romance well yet still want characters to get together.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31756: Dec 29th 2015 at 10:43:33 AM

It also has the ironic byproduct of making Dragon Ball a pioneer in relationship writing, as a consequence of being one of very few works that talks about the struggles of being in a relationship instead of the struggles of building one.

What little relationship drama we do get involves marriage and parenthood conflicts. Goku and Chi-Chi's separate ideas for what Gohan should grow up to be, for example, or Vegeta abandoning Bulma with their child and then having to learn to appreciate his son.

edited 29th Dec '15 10:43:55 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31757: Dec 29th 2015 at 1:01:02 PM

I wish more shonen writers had taken Toriyama's approach. I do believe it's just that much better for a writer that sucks at writing romance to just not write romance. One Piece's mangaka seems to be the only one who figured that out.

Also, I jumped like seven pages because fuck reading, who does that, amirite?

Anyway...

Yo, Saiga, you gots a Beast's Lair account, right? Can you do me a favor? Those guys there do dataminin on Grand Order. I think Kyte's a bit famous for it actually. Can you ask them the following question?

How does the Gacha roll?

As in, does it roll each possible result one by one, or does it do a single roll?

And if it's the former: what order does it roll in?

Because the Gacha's rates are atrocious and don't accurately reflect what they're actually supposed to be at all.

The Gacha rolling for stuff we don't actually want first would explain the well and truly terribad rates.

edited 29th Dec '15 1:01:17 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31758: Dec 29th 2015 at 1:47:01 PM

Why did you ask that on the DB thread instead of the Type-MOON thread or via PM?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#31759: Dec 29th 2015 at 2:01:48 PM

I think the lack of romance was something that made me really attached to the series. Even from when I was little, if there was some kind of underlying romantic subplot, I mostly skimmed over it. I just found it boring. Whereas Dragon Ball doesn't give a crap about romance. It happens off-screen, so you can decide whatever you want. If you think there's romance, then there was romance. You just didn't get to see it.

Toriyama writes to his strengths - wacky humour, things coming out of nowhere with little foreshadowing, and as little melodrama as possible. I appreciate it. It has its problems, but at least he never overreaches himself and shoots himself in the foot.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31760: Dec 29th 2015 at 2:17:01 PM

That is true.

I do wish he wasn't so devoted to making all his female characters (sans Bulma) become traditional housewives though.

I mean, he doesn't care about Romance really, so why bother with marrying characters in the first place?

But yeah, considering some romantic disasters in anime, I admit, I appreciate that Toriyama doesn't waste time with something he knows he's no good at.

One Strip! One Strip!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#31761: Dec 29th 2015 at 2:49:19 PM

Did he ever really cheat? I figured Toriyama said that as a half assed justification for breaking him up with Bulma, and wasn't serious about it.

Yep. Future Trunks also mentions it when Goku is flabbergasted that Bulma didn't end up with Yamcha.

edited 29th Dec '15 2:49:38 PM by MadSkillz

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31762: Dec 29th 2015 at 3:17:34 PM

Certain writers have overreached so much that they wound up shooting themselves in the back of the head.

Also, I asked through here because the thought literally came up to me while I was writing the bit about page jumping.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31763: Dec 29th 2015 at 3:32:01 PM

At the start of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Bulma complains about Yamcha abandoning her to go train on his own for three years, which is the start of their problems as we know them.

Bulma continues alluding to their problems at the start of the Raditz arc, when Krillin questions why she didn't bring him to their gathering. She doesn't say exactly why they're fighting, but she does answer the question of his whereabouts with, "You think I care? After what he did?!" and follows up with, "I'm better off without him and so are you!"

Then Trunks comes right out and says it: Bulma and Yamcha broke up because Bulma was fed up with Yamcha's womanizing.

edited 29th Dec '15 3:32:27 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#31764: Dec 29th 2015 at 3:34:27 PM

Here is a guy who murdered a man and later the girl that man had been with most of the series gets knocked up and shacks up with the murderer.

Technically Nappa was the one who killed everyone.

Given how Piccolo's past life killed so many of the main characters and he's now treated like family, I just take it as water under the bridge.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31765: Dec 29th 2015 at 3:35:45 PM

Also, do remember that Bulma was an absolute bitch to Yamcha during the RRA Saga. She was convinced that Yamcha was cheating on her when he was doing nothing of the sort and I think only briefly considered it when Oolong brought it up due to Bulma being a bitch.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31766: Dec 29th 2015 at 3:41:50 PM

[up][up]Except that one guy who got killed by a Saibaman.

Also, people, remember that to these people, death is not that big a deal.

It's really hard to care about some guy having killed you before when you weren't dead very long anyway.

edited 29th Dec '15 3:43:16 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#31767: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:02:33 PM

Trunks might have a bit of a exaggerated view on the whole cheating thing,since,you know,Bulma.Like with Veggie.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31768: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:13:44 PM

That's true. It was Bulma who likely told him that. We can't really be sure that's what happened.

Hell, we never see Yamcha interacting with any other females beyond the ones in their inner circle.

But lets talk about something besides Yamcha.

.....I just wish I had an idea what that should be.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31769: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:16:56 PM

We could talk about power levels again or about Pan not being a Super Saiyan or about Gohan being worthless. Those are more or less our only options.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31770: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:19:39 PM

.......

I will drill us a new path, or get us all killed trying.

So swears Rob!

edited 29th Dec '15 4:19:54 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#31771: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:24:15 PM

Do you guys think we'll see Goten and Trunks age in Super?Will we see more new family members to the Son and Briefs families,apart from the soon to be conceived Bra?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31772: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:25:59 PM

When did Bulma inaccurately accuse him of cheating in the Red Ribbon arc?

I'm leafing through, starting at the point where Goku meets up with Bulma to fix the Dragon Radar. Bulma's mom mentions that Bulma dislikes the fact that Yamcha's "popular with all the girls", but that's not the same thing.

It sets the stage for "what he did" in the Raditz arc and the follow-up of Trunks claiming Yamcha was a cheater. I suppose everything could just be in Bulma's imagination but so far, every explicit and implicit sign points to the Word of God on Yamcha's infidelity being entirely correct. Occam's Razor says he cheated.

edited 29th Dec '15 4:27:29 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31773: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:26:53 PM

I doubt there'll be more members of either family.

Maybe we'll see Bra born during the story though.

It would be nice to see Goten and Trunks grow up a bit. Just so we can get adult Gotenks in something outside of Dragonball Heroes.

One Strip! One Strip!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31774: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:28:22 PM

[up][up] Double post.

Right now, I only have some anime filler in the Red Ribbon Arcwhere she mistakes him grappling with a female assassin for dancing with him and knocks him out. It's just before she goes off with Goku to hunt the balls and meets General Blue.

edited 29th Dec '15 4:28:56 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31775: Dec 29th 2015 at 4:28:32 PM

[up][up][up] Must have been an anime-only thing, then.

edited 29th Dec '15 4:28:46 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

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