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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31676: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:31:57 PM

Although weirdly they then say that was all Just as Planned and he was deliberately providing a signature for Goku to lock onto.

Maybe tone down the expression then. I know it's meant to be a surprise that he was doing that but it makes no fucking sense when he looks like that.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31678: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:38:03 PM

He is quite the dashing rogue. He doesn't play by anyone's rules.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#31679: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:39:54 PM

So they did another commercial:

This is the GOAT Gotenks.

edited 28th Dec '15 7:40:34 PM by MadSkillz

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31680: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:40:12 PM

He's making that face because he's full of holes and just used the last vestiges of his power to scream to his daddy for help.

~is still bitter about the Yamcha thing~

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#31681: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:43:23 PM

More seriously on Yamcha, I am curious why Toriyama decided to use him as the fall guy so often? Kubo did the same thing with Chad in Bleach.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#31682: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:49:11 PM

Sometimes an author just literally can't think of anything to do with a character, so they just relegate them to a one-note role and eventually forget about them. It just happens.

But let's be honest, Yamcha was never really going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things; he was introduced just to show how superior Goku was, and to establish the new, unknown fighter in the Tournament Arc. He never really had much purpose beyond that.

The whole thing with Bulma & Vegeta just seems like an unfortunate (but really hilarious) coincidence on Toriyama's part. Hell, despite what fanon will tell you, he was completely cool with Bulma & Vegeta hooking up.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#31683: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:50:38 PM

I don't think he particularly did? I mean, Krillin is basically just as terrible, he just got more screentime.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#31684: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:52:07 PM

Majority of Krillin's Butt-Monkey stuff though comes from Filler and the movies.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31685: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:53:54 PM

Krillin got to go to Namek. Yamcha got to die to an evil plant person thing.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31686: Dec 28th 2015 at 7:57:12 PM

Yamcha got to go train with King Kai which surely must have multiplied his power level quite a bit just like it did with Goku and he probably has several cool new techniques as well.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#31687: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:01:09 PM

Didn't Yamcha only stay on King Kaio's planet for like a week?

[up] Goku got to multiply his power though with the Kaoiken. Multiply Yamcha by 20 and you still get 0.

edited 28th Dec '15 8:02:12 PM by MadSkillz

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31688: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:04:20 PM

Even without Kaioken Goku still went from about 400 to OVER 8000.

Also there is precedent. Goku training under Kami for three years only increased his power level by like 100. It didn't even double. Yamcha after training with Kami for a measly single year increased his PL 6x or so. He went from less than 200 to more than 1200 at any rate.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31689: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:05:10 PM

[up][up]He and the others were there for awhile but we don't actually know what they did or how much they improved. It never came up.

Piccolo was already equal to or stronger than King Kai by the time he arrived.

edited 28th Dec '15 8:05:29 PM by LSBK

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31690: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:08:02 PM

I do think having even Nappa be stronger than King Kai was a bit much.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31691: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:09:08 PM

Late to the Party, but yeah, the Tien things is me being a Hypocrite.

So all of you can shut it.

The other topics I don't care about.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#31692: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:15:17 PM

Except none of that matters because by that point, the other characters have already learned new ways to get stronger anyway.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31693: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:28:59 PM

More seriously on Yamcha, I am curious why Toriyama decided to use him as the fall guy so often? Kubo did the same thing with Chad in Bleach.

There is probably no single reason that he chose Yamcha for that. In the first arc, Goku's walking over everybody, and that's the only time he loses here.

His first worf moment comes at the 21st Budokai, against Jackie Chun. It's kind-of effective since Chun beats him so easily, but we already saw Goku and Kuririn surprise themselves by one-shotting people after their training so Chun's feat doesn't look so impressive. Kuririn needed to be the one to establish him as a credible threat.

And to be honest, the three tournament arcs are incredibly repetitive. It's no surprise to me that he just got stuck in that role for the next two tournaments.

He worfs in the Uranai Baba tournament and so did Kuririn. That whole sequence was for the purpose of wanking Goku.

He actually isn't worfed in the Daimao arc, Ten was. I'm fairly sure Toriyama immediately realized that Ten would be a more effective worf as soon as he joined the cast, so he is there to be worfed before Goku's climatic fight with Daimao so we can truly get a sense of how much he has improved. Then in the 23rd Budokai, Ten worfs to Goku who is more important than God. Another shift toward Ten being the go-to worf.

In the Saiyan arc, the Saibaimen are introduced to show the human's development. Yamcha being is probably to make the Saibaimen feel like something of a threat, so Kuririn taking them out means more. Then the more effective worfs are saved for Nappa.

And then he comes back to worf against Gero. I don't think this was done to show how powerful Gero was, but to establish the kind of abilities they have. So there was a point to this. It also lets Toriyama write out the weakest member early, so he doesn't have to deal with him for a little while.

And that's basically the end of Yamcha's worf career. I think Toriyama did have his reasons to do this stuff without being malicious about it.

As for Chad, the reason he loses so much is because being too weak to stand beside Ichigo is his Character Arc. One that I'm not sure if Kubo knows how he's going to resolve, because Ichigo is way beyond him now.[lol] But Chad really is more entertaining while he's angsting over his weakness, which is probably why Kubo is keeping him that way.

Also there is precedent. Goku training under Kami for three years only increased his power level by like 100. It didn't even double. Yamcha after training with Kami for a measly single year increased his PL 6x or so. He went from less than 200 to more than 1200 at any rate.

Already explained in story. Goku was trained by Popo for that time, God took a hands off approach and when the Saiyans were coming he decided to train the humans directly for better results.

Yamcha was also stronger than Goku when both started Kaio's training, and as you get stronger their are diminishing returns on the training you do.

edited 28th Dec '15 8:30:46 PM by Saiga

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31694: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:37:27 PM

Gintama

Gintoki: Well, it's something like this: He fights with his rival and wins. (writes one arrow from Yamcha to Tien) Then become friends without knowing it. (writes another arrow from Tien to Piccolo) And a new rival appears, and he fights and wins again. (writes another arrow from Piccolo to Vegeta) And made a new friend... Repeating this and dragging it on is the standard JUMP formula. (Circles all the characters except Yamcha)

Konoshi: Oi! One persion is missing! Namcha?! Is that Namcha?!

Gintoki: Well, that's what the rival part is all about. (crosses Yamcha out)

Konoshi: Oi! Let him in! Let Namcha join in the JUMP system!

Gintoki: The next thing is... Let's talk about the comedy part. (kicks the board down, directly where Yamcha was)

Konoshi: NAMCHA!!

This may be an Affectionate Parody, as the creator was sent a long letter from a fan saying though Namcha isn't strong physically, he is still a strong character, as he strives to do what's right even though he isn't as powerful as the others. Sorachi's response? "I agree."

Buldogue's lawyer
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31695: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:41:41 PM

I always liked Yamcha, and I always will.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31696: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:43:57 PM

No one says you can't or shouldn't.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#31697: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:44:31 PM

[up][up]Wolf Fang Fist!

edited 28th Dec '15 8:44:42 PM by Guy01

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31698: Dec 28th 2015 at 9:03:24 PM

[up][up]

Honestly. Sometimes it feels like the opposite with how much effort this thread puts into ripping into him.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#31699: Dec 28th 2015 at 9:10:29 PM

He's just an easy fall guy. With how much this series obsesses over power comparisons, someone who's been dragging behind for such a long time is an easy target when we feel the need to make a "x won't do any good for anyone who's not a main character" joke.

It's pretty much just tradition at this point. Nobody really takes those comments seriously anymore. I mean, even Abridged, which popularized the Weakling Yamcha jokes in the first place, is turning him into more of an Only Sane Man nowadays.

edited 28th Dec '15 9:11:30 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31700: Dec 28th 2015 at 9:29:31 PM

Your Power Level does not equal your quality of character. Bulma is one of the best characters in the series, despite being the weakest person in the entire main cast (aside from Oolong, Puar, and Marron).


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