When Goku fought Tenshinhan, it seemed apparent that while Goku had the speed advantage, Tenshinhan had the strength advantage. Goku also had a clear disadvantage against Roshi, whether the disadvantage was skill-based or power-based is up to debate. King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr also messed him up good, despite being (arguably) a bit weaker.
edited 13th Dec '15 3:13:47 AM by PushoverMediaCritic
When you look at Kuririn vs Piccolo on its own, it looks like a good fight. It used to be a favourite of mine.
However the entire thing is completely fucked up during the Goku vs Piccolo fight:
Context: discussing what will happen if Goku loses to Piccolo
Kuririn: “If it comes down to that, we can all gang up and manage something!”
Piccolo: “Kukkukku…You think that you’ll be able to manage something by ganging up on me? Don’t make me laugh! Even if there were a hundred of the likes of you, you’d still be no match. God included. I’m already in a completely different dimension than you!”
Kame-sennin: “Unfortunately, he’s right...Goku is the only one able to take in those stupendously fast movements of his…”
Furthermore, at the very end of the fight, both Goku and Piccolo are severely injured and on their last legs. He's only a punch and headbutt away from being totally defeated.
It's at this point that the entire group decides to forget Goku's wishes and jump in, and he easily swats them aside with an energy blast so they give up. Even in that condition, the entire group is powerless to interact with him.
Fighters of Kuririn's caliber being a threat to his reign my ass. They can't fucking touch his true power.
And yeah, this would also mean what Piccolo showed in his fight with Kuririn was less power than he was had leftover when he was nearly defeated. That just kills any merit Kuririn had in that fight.
hahahahaha oh god yes
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No, because Cell wasn't hiding nearly as much power which lead to Goku actually being able to hurt him and exhaust him for realsies.
At the same time, more emphasis was put on the fact that Goku could not beat Cell at all, and all of his efforts were framed as crushing his hope spots rather than how he can still pull off good moves.
The fact that Cell wasn't at full power accentuates the point of the fight: Goku was outclassed.
Narratively speaking there is a world of difference between showing "This character can do something, but look they can't win" and "This character can't win, but look they can do something". I Am Not Left-Handed supports the main point of the former, and weakens the main point of the latter.
edited 13th Dec '15 6:46:20 AM by Saiga
I wouldn't need skill to challenge him if he held back enough. That's what I'm saying. You can't measure skill accurately against something whose power is whatever they whim it to be.
He could be the superior in skill and strength, but by holding back enough, it'd still look good on my part. The world's most skilled toddler would still be easily and gleefully beaten to death by me.
It does seem strange for Piccolo to say Krillin might be a threat, while still stating there was no chance for any of them to stop an exhausted, battered half dead Piccolo when all of them were fresh.
Hell, it's crazy to think that even a Piccolo who's that weak is still totally out of their league. Toriyama was setting the power level bar high even before Frieza.
Maybe he needed to vary things a little more; have some arcs with minions serving the main villain who can do things said villain can't quite do......
No. We've had this discussion too much. Not much point. Dragon ball isn't that kind of show, and I'm not going to change that by making the same arguments over and over again.
Of course, this revelation may not stop me next time, but that's how it goes sometimes.
edited 13th Dec '15 8:30:33 AM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Correction: I only hate Adult Goku. Kid Goku is awesome.
I won't deny I have a negative view of DBZ, mainly because I consider it a fully justified view. If there can be entire pages of people just shitting on Naruto or Fairy Till, I don't feel terribly out of place just being one poster talking about how bad this series is.
But it be unfair to say it is completely terrible. There are some good things in Part 2. People were talking about Super Buu a page ago, right? He was a good villain. I liked that he actually used strategy and cunning. He was smart enough to realize he wasn't that smart.
If Toriyama never pretended there was some tension whenever Goku didn't fight there'd be no reason to care about anyone else's fights but Goku's. We know anything else the other characters do won't really have much impact and they're just holding the line until Goku shows up to save their asses.
Now granted, it leads to some stupid, stupid decisions but that's really just Dragon Ball in a nutshell; villain shows up, supporting characters job to him, Goku saves the day, indirectly or otherwise.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I really can see both sides of the minions debate. Some think it's great that minions give the side characters time to shine. Others think they slow the pacing to a crawl with fights that are mostly foregone conclusions. The Fake Karakura Town arc in Bleach was particularly criticized for this, with not just the henchmen but the henchmen's henchmen getting their own spotlight fights.

Part 1 is still very much the Goku show. Goku was stronger than Yamcha and Krillin in their first appearances, and the gap only increases from there. If we're looking at Daizenshuu power levels, Goku and Tenshinhan were of equal strength in their fight. But then Piccolo showed up and Goku got a free powerup pretty quickly. Against Piccolo Jr., he does not have a hard time until he lets his guard down and gets a massive hole in his chest as a result.
Goku has always been a bit too much stronger than everyone else.
Oh, yeah, and in Super this week... Piccolo died but don't worry Dragon Balls, Gohan chewed himself out for not training, and I feel like there is too much Vegeta fanservice. But that's probably because I don't really like Vegeta. Or, rather, Super's Vegeta.
edited 13th Dec '15 2:58:37 AM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!