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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30602: Dec 9th 2015 at 10:34:52 AM

   tumblr   

Guy guys, clearly Frieza and Tagoma took the One Punch Man regime; 100 Push-ups, 100 sit ups, and 100 Squats. EVERY SINGLE DAY.

It's sinister that this anime and One Punch Man's came out in the same year.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#30603: Dec 9th 2015 at 10:37:51 AM

One had actual care and attention put into it, and the other is Dragon Ball Super :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30604: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:21:12 AM

[up][up] ...The website they're hosted on can't possibly be the most insightful thing there is to say about those links.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:24:20 AM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30605: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:37:09 AM

Where did that clip of Moustache Yamcha come from?

I don't remember anything like that at all.

.....Must be from GT.tongue

edited 9th Dec '15 11:42:55 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30606: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:38:51 AM

I mean, Vegeta is probably more attractive in GT even with that dumb mustache than he is without it.

Like, the ridiculous pornstar mustache might distract you from the fact that he's basically a troll doll.

Hell, I'll go ahead and say that purely in terms of looks and conventional standards of male beauty, Yamcha's probably the best looking guy in the cast.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:39:52 AM by unnoun

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30607: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:39:45 AM

Well, first, "Durahgon Ball"? That's cute. I'd always heard it that way but never tried to spell it out.

I expected to see a picture of Gold Cold, instead, the poster discussed how Frieza could've won easily with Cold on his side.

I take issue with this because, as someone argued to death once before, King Cold isn't in Frieza's league. Frieza is a prodigy, he himself points this out. Cold training probably wouldn't have the same effect. If it did, and we had Golden Cold, well, Vegeta would pound his sorry ass in a manner so brutal it would make Bulma blush.

Gross.

Frieza could've won easily if he'd blown the planet up, but, he never thinks to do that - it's all about the vengeance. Frieza could've won easily if he'd started off with Golden Frieza and either: A) blown Goku up Krillin-style, B) blown the planet up Frieza-style, or C) pointed his ring finger at Goku and shot him through the heart, Bon Jovi-style.

Really, I don't think any amount of training would've helped Frieza. He's just as much of a putz as he always was. I think even his voice actor cracked a joke about the power scale:

Goku is a 5. Beerus is a 10. Whis is a 15. If Goku and Vegeta worked together they could take Beerus on. Frieza can't beat Beerus no matter how hard he tries.

And it's weird, Frieza being impatient. Because patience is exactly what he showed in his introduction. Patience through cruelty, yes, but he was in no big hurry to get anything done, that I recall - TFS makes you forget the original dialogue - he was quite content to let his henchmen do all the work he himself could've done. And as is oft-stated in this thread, if your battle power is higher, that generally means you are stronger, faster, overall better with any battle power that is lower. Power scaling to the max. Anything Zarbon or Dodoria were doing, Frieza could have done at ten times the speed.

And Frieza has a fricking BUBBLE CAR. A seat made for LEISURE. There's no way you can tell me he isn't the sort who likes to watch situations pan out.

I actually sort of like the observation that Frieza comes up with an arbitrary timeframe, it reinforces how arrogant he is, like what Cooler implied in his film. Despite the cold, merciless terror Frieza embodies, he's reckless, he's his own worst enemy.

Yamcha is indeed a sexy man-muffin.

The Tuffle-Saiyan theory's neat.

And tumblr is still my Dinkleburg more-or-less.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:46:43 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30608: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:41:21 AM

I mean, there was a lot of analysis there about Frieza's character?

Cold isn't as strong as Frieza, but supposedly his power feels similar. Ish. According to everyone.

Teamed up with Frieza he could be dangerous.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30609: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:43:27 AM

Moved this to a new post so that it doesn't get missed.

That stuff about the Tuffles is interesting. I mean, it's been brought up before that everything we know about them comes from what we've heard, or when they've been bad-guys (non-cannon Raichi, and Baby, who are both antagonists), so we don't really know if they are innocent or not.

Also, if that stuff about the war lasting 10 years is true, then it means the Tuffles must have had some impressive weaponry, since as we know, high power levels trump damn near everything sans magic or some ability that negates it, and even then it might not be enough. Even if the Saiyans were far weaker back then then when they were working for Frieza, they'd still be strong enough to wreck shit quite effectively.

My thoughts on why we know so little about them is the same as my thoughts about a lot of things that don't get explained: Toriyama simply hasn't given it much thought, so it's not an issue.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30610: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:47:52 AM

I love the idea of Tuffle and Saiyan class struggles. You have no idea.

...I also love the idea of an AU where they team up and conquer the universe together.

I mean, Saiyan brute force with Tuffle science.

Saiyan androids.

Saiyan-Tuffle hybrid kids.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:49:11 AM by unnoun

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30611: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:52:01 AM

The details about Saiyan/Tuffle history are so vague, there's any number of reasons why the Tuffles held out. Superior intelligence, weaponry, infrastructure, greater numbers, better terrain, better leadership, clearly better technology if Raichi and Baby are any indication. The Saiyans, meanwhile, only had armor and spaceships after the takeover IIRC.

Though, if the Saiyans did evolve from the Fraggles, and they beat the Tuffles strategically, then the Tuffles quite frankly deserved their fate.

Saiyans need more food to stay active, too. Famine could be a huge problem with two races vying for control of a planet and they'll be hit harder.

There's no guarantee all Saiyans have control over their Ape Forms either. Even the Bardock film implies they don't remember everything they did. Vegeta's the exception. Probably some team kills on the Saiyan side that would've stalled their progress.

I'm a little surprised no one's pitched for a manga about the Saiyans.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:59:19 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#30612: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:54:59 AM

What if Bardock and King Vegeta were once buddies or something?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30613: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:56:21 AM

It seems like the war wasn't won until the full moon happened and the Saiyans turned Great Ape.

So. Team kills as great apes probably weren't a problem.

...Team kills in general might have though, Saiyans being Saiyans.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30614: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:58:07 AM

I would read a manga about King Vegeta uniting the Saiyan tribes and leading them to victory against the Tuffles or something.

It merits noting that the Saiyan-Tuffle War only lasted ten years and was recent enough that some known Saiyans predate it. Nappa, for instance. The Saiyans were on the planet for 170 years before the actual war began.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:59:51 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#30615: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:19:48 PM

Also, that it did take ten years means it actually wasn't a squash in the Saiyans' favor.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30616: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:25:30 PM

The Saiyans didn't have an overwhelming advantage until the full moon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#30617: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:26:48 PM

One imagines that in a sum total of 180 years on the planet, that can't have been the first time they ever experienced a full moon.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#30618: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:27:56 PM

unnoun, is "Durahgon Ball" your Tumblr? Because that Tuffle-Saiyan theory is basically what you were proposing about some time ago. And I still find is as unconvincing as back then.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30619: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:37:39 PM

I wish.

I don't have a tumblr.

I don't think it's an uncommon or unusual theory.

Like, it's Vegeta's "theory" in Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans. Like, all of that stuff about Tuffles treating the Saiyans as inferior is literally from the OVA.

Vegeta's not the most reliable narrator, but neither is Raichi.

So it isn't like anyone is making anything up per se.

To me it'd make a more interesting story than anything.

I like nuance and moral ambiguity.

@Tobias: Supposedly the Full Moon on Planet Plant is either every 100 years or every 8 years.

...I dunno how that works.

edited 9th Dec '15 12:40:20 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30620: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:40:01 PM

It was probably just the first time the full moon showed up since the war began, but not necessarily the first full moon the Saiyans had ever experienced.

So, like, they were losing the war but then they were close to the full moon, so King Vegeta or Grandpa Vegeta or whoever was in charge at the time told everyone to get into positions to maximize their damage output once the full moon hits. Then it hit, everyone became Great Apes, and they overwhelmed the Tuffle defenses.

edited 9th Dec '15 12:40:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#30621: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:41:28 PM

If the Full Moon was every 8 years, which I think was the original Japanese version of the anime, then the Tuffles survived one already.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30622: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:43:27 PM

Possibly. I see two scenarios:

  • There was a full moon early in the war but the war hadn't advanced to such a point where it could be a Game Changer yet. The Tuffles had yet to be worn down by the rigors of war and were able to repel the first Great Ape incursion. It was only after nearly a decade of fighting that the second Great Ape incursion could overwhelm what remained of their forces.
  • The full moon didn't mark the end of the war, only the beginning of the end. There were still 2-4 more years of mopping up remaining pockets of Tuffle resistance before the war officially ended in their complete genocide.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30623: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:49:50 PM

Come to think of it, how much about what we know of the war was made up by Toei, and how much came from Toriyama?

I want to be clear on that so that there are no misunderstandings about who has said what and all that.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30624: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:51:19 PM

That's actually a good question. The manga barely touches on Planet Vegeta outside of Frieza blowing it up. I'm not sure if the Tuffles even exist in the manga.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#30625: Dec 9th 2015 at 12:53:33 PM

The don't as far as I recall, the first mention of the tuffles came from the OVA if I recall.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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