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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30076: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:37:46 AM

Gohan also knew seven straight years of peace. For seven years, there wasn't a bigger threat around the corner. For seven years, there wasn't an alien warlord trying to murder the planet or a god-killing abomination or murderous androids. For seven years, life went on without problem. That's what happens when the story ends; the idea that the heroes have to keep training so that they can be strong enough to handle the next villain who emerges is purely Doylist logic. It's not Gohan's fault that the series wasn't quite done yet.

When Goku was 12 years old, Kame-sennin fought him under a hidden alias at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. He disguised his identity as Jackie Chun for a reason: as Kame-sennin explains, it is of the utmost importance that Goku, despite his immense strength and ability, not win the tournament but instead be bested by a stranger. He wanted to teach Goku an important lesson about never becoming complacent, never getting satisfied with the idea that he's the strongest fighter and nothing else could rival him. He wanted Goku to understand that there is always a bigger fish.

He put everything he had into teaching Goku that lesson, despite the fact that Goku had nearly outpaced him already. He did everything in his power to keep Goku from losing interest in martial arts and wandering off to find a different passion and it worked. Goku came out of the tournament humbled but encouraged, determined to keep training and keep adventuring and keep finding new ways to improve his skills, never settling for the idea that he was strong enough. He went through his entire life with the mindset that there was always someone better and that was a thought that thrilled and excited him. It defined his personality.

When Gohan was 11, one year younger than Goku was at that time, the fate of the world was placed on his shoulders. He had to fight Cell, a foe even his insurmountable father could not defeat. The entire hope for the Earth rested on one key fact that Goku tried very hard to drive home: that Gohan was the best, that Gohan was the strongest, that no one could possibly rival him. At the eleventh hour, Gohan found the strength to destroy Cell and saved the world, secure in the knowledge that he was the most powerful being in the entire universe and nothing could ever surpass him.

And then he lost interest.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30077: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:39:42 AM

[up][up][up]

I imagine that's how it was intended, but it felt and looked more like Goku didn't think Gohan was even worth asking because he's not a fighter, that he was disappointed in his son.

I don't believe that's the case, but it seemed more like that's how he was putting it.

Well, I suppose I should stop complaining. At least Gohan's got a wife and a great kid, and Tagoma, as pointed out, did need to cheap-shot him to even temporarily stop him, so it's not like he's a complete joke.

[up] So what your saying is, Gohan needed his own Master Roshi to inspire him to keep training? Makes sense really.

edited 1st Dec '15 8:41:49 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#30078: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:44:28 AM

[up][up][up][up]Goku had a point tho. Gohan did abandon fighting out of his own volition, so what would be a point in drawing him into a fight that Goku himself said won't be a big deal if they lost? Gohan would come back to training if Goku asked him to, but unlike chi chi, he respects his son's wishes.

[up][up][up][up][up]That Tagoma went from Dodoria level to a serious threat from three months of being Freeza punching bag (Freeza literally used him to test out how to best hurt someone without killing them) is even more absurd than Freeza own power up. At least the letter has an excuse of being some sort of mutant super prodigy, who achieved power of 120 million without training. Are all of World Trading Organization members super prodigies who never trained now? Are Z fighters actually slow learners since it took them like fifty times the time to get to the level a random mook achieved in months? Or is Tagoma actually a very ugly, bald, albino Sayian who's been getting a daily Zenkai for last four months?

Tagoma being a threat is just nonsensical way to stretch out the arc, which I don't appreciate, since it would be better if they just got it done with and moved to some new stuff.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#30079: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:59:34 AM

I always feel like fan translators exaggerate what's originally said.

The original Japanese wording had Goku say that Gohan was simply studying and that fighting wasn't his thing. I honestly have no idea where Goku calling Gohan a straight-up Nerd came from and that just doesn't sound like something Goku would say to be honest.

And don't get me started on how translations of the earlier Super chapters had rampant f-bombs up the wazoo.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30080: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:01:57 AM

That's Mangastream for you. Exaggeration and gratuitous swearing is basically their calling card.

edited 1st Dec '15 9:08:41 AM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#30081: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:11:31 AM

Goku: YOU FUCKING FOOL!!!

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#30082: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:31:29 AM

Yeah, I get that feeling a lot when I read fansubs that have characters curse a lot. I used to read complaints about how the English version watered everything down because the Z-Fighters actually cursed a lot. Yeah, I can buy Goku or Gohan going "Damn!" in reaction, but I can't picture Goku or Vegeta telling the other to "F'ck off!" because of a headbutt, or Vegeta calling Goku a douche.

You can't actually know unless you're fluent in Japanese, what if the subber read it one way and just wanted the character to curse more?

edited 1st Dec '15 9:32:29 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#30083: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:33:31 AM

Gohan did actually call Super Buu a retard in Japanese. In general, the Japanese versions curse more than the official English translation but fan translations curse more than the Japanese.

Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#30084: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:20:19 AM

Not as much as abridged.

Personally, on Gohan, I felt his moment against Shisami was a Negated Moment of Awesome, before Tagoma shot him and Shisami. Also, anyone else think Piccolo had some Deja vu watching that happen?

edited 1st Dec '15 10:20:54 AM by Piando

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30085: Dec 1st 2015 at 12:29:19 PM

Is Super Buu flipping off the world after absorbing Vegito in the manga, or just the anime?

I hope it's the former.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#30086: Dec 1st 2015 at 12:52:20 PM

I'm pretty sure I remember that being in the manga.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#30087: Dec 1st 2015 at 1:31:05 PM

I just checked the manga. It's not there.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30089: Dec 1st 2015 at 1:31:58 PM

Damn.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#30090: Dec 1st 2015 at 2:49:24 PM

So I just realized a major problem with the whole "have Goku and Vegeta use the Fusion Dance instead of the Potara" idea. Once Boo realizes that he can't win, he'd just GTFO and wait out the fusion.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#30091: Dec 1st 2015 at 2:52:39 PM

Did you see how fast Gogeta murdered Janemba? Did you forget how fast Gogeta was in general?

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#30092: Dec 1st 2015 at 2:58:46 PM

No, I did not. Given how many states Majin Boo can survive in, he just has to get a piece of him away from the battle and just let himself be scattered. While Gogeta could very well vaporize him, Vegetto also could have done that but didn't. Also, while Gogeta probably could shut down all of Boo's attempts to escape, that'd also mean that Boo would have no chance to absorb him even if he had a reason (which he doesn't because he doesn't need the temporary power boost).

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#30093: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:01:56 PM

Vegito didn't vaporize Buu because he was trying to get absorbed in order to free Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30094: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:04:29 PM

The Dance would make more sense, but the flaw with using it is that it has a ritual. In order for Goku and Vegeta to fuse and fight Super Buu, Goku and Vegeta would need to perform the Fusion Dance. This would require Vegeta to have learned the dance and would also require Super Buu to stand there and let them do it, despite already knowing what the thing is.

Buu isn't as generous as Cell.

edited 1st Dec '15 3:05:05 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#30095: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:05:38 PM

And as we saw, Buu would not do that, as he did everything he could to prevent them from fusing with the Potara.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#30096: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:10:26 PM

Some part of that point in the fight would have to be rewritten to allow Vegeta to learn the Fusion Dance in time.

Unrelated but I'd like to see Veku once before Gogeta shows up.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#30097: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:12:54 PM

Goku could always take Vegeta to the Planet of the Kai via IT. That'd buy them some time.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#30099: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:17:10 PM

Although they'd have to assume Gogeta would still know how to do IT. Otherwise, they'd be screwed.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#30100: Dec 1st 2015 at 3:18:34 PM

Wouldn't Gogeta know everything that Vegeta and Goku know?

And even then, doesn't Supreme Kai have a form of instant transmission, anyway?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

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