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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#276: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:44:10 PM

[up] If I did that, I wouldn't have all the characters who could catch up be of the same species. Calls to mind the Puny Humans trope.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#277: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:45:01 PM

Well, they aren't all of the same species. tongue

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#278: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:45:51 PM

[up] Yeah, some are only half-Saiyan. tongue

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#279: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:47:22 PM

Which is a new species.

SCIENCE!

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#280: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:50:42 PM

I was talking about Gohan vs Buu.

It was so utterly predictable that he would lose his ass off when he did fight after the powerup. (I think that moment was were I started my slide to getting bored of predictable Shōnen actually.

edited 22nd Apr '12 5:51:52 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#281: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:52:06 PM

To you, maybe. I know I'm not alone in thinking he was going to be the Boo arc's hero.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#282: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:52:25 PM

[up][up][up] I think the story would've been better-served by having characters with no Saiyan in them at all as being relevant. Krillin and Piccolo, at least, should've been kept at the same level as the Saiyans, I think.

edited 22nd Apr '12 5:52:46 PM by HamburgerTime

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#283: Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:55:42 PM

Ehh, I'm not sure. Them falling behind served a purpose to the story.

The way I would have handled it is to have henchmen characters around like Dodoria and Zarbon who could lose to the weaker characters. That way they can still do shit without having to be on the same level as the others.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#284: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:05:34 PM

If Goku hadn't taken such a big Chekovs Gunman role in the arc I might have agreed with ya, the way he was handled it was clear he was going to fight again... Since that was clear you know Gohan can not win no matter what he does.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#285: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:09:23 PM

Was I naive for thinking that Vegeta would beat Boo? tongue

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#286: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:34:37 PM

I'm actually a fan of works where The Hero does not necessarily beat the Big Bad. I would've been totally okay with Neville defeating Voldemort, for instance, something a lot of other fans of that work seemed to dread the thought of.

edited 22nd Apr '12 6:41:07 PM by HamburgerTime

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#287: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:53:13 PM

[up][up] at that point in the story? How? Vegeta was gone from the story... I mean completely gone. Goku however....

[up] It would have been nice but you know the publisher would never allow it... They even made sure Goku was involved in Cell's defeat. (at least toriyama did a good job with that though.)

Can't have our main character doing nothin

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#288: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:59:29 PM

They should have at least let Piccolo defeat a Cell Jr.

How humiliating is that whole bit? And it's made even worse in the anime.

That wasn't in the manga. Vegeta and Trunks could at least fight the Cell Juniors.

Regardless, Toriyama seemed all for throwing the other characters under a bus so that Goku could mount their crumpled bodies to glory.

It all goes back to Tien getting his ass kicked by Drum. I love the KP Saga but he should not have been so utterly decimated. However that was just the beginning of how everyone would be marginalized and by the end, it was just absurd.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:00:40 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#289: Apr 22nd 2012 at 7:05:20 PM

But... Gohan had already beaten Cell, and Toriyama had outright stated that Gohan would be the main character from now on at the very start of the Boo saga.

[up] Started earlier than the KP saga. It was always present.

And the anime filler having Piccolo do better than Vegeta and Trunks was just stupid. Toei love to metaphorically fellate Piccolo almost as much as Goku.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#290: Apr 22nd 2012 at 7:05:55 PM

[up][up][up] I don't think "the publisher" ever forced Toriyama to do anything. That's just ugly rumors.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:06:16 PM by HamburgerTime

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#291: Apr 22nd 2012 at 7:08:50 PM

Really? There were only three major and powerful characters up until the 22nd Tournament - Goku, Roshi and Krillin. Krillin was obviously always weaker than Goku but not by leaps and bounds.

I would argue the 22nd Tournament is when Goku started eclipsing people. The cast of fighters was just so small up until that point that it was really had to overshadow anyone.

...ya know, I just now remembered Yamcha was almost always there too. I now feel really bad for his character.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#292: Apr 22nd 2012 at 7:14:55 PM

Early Dragon Ball was a massive Goku fest. He kept effortlessly beating up Kurilin from the moment they met, any time it looked like he had a weakness it was Worf Had the Flu, and if someone did outclass him it would just take some training before he utterly outpaced them forever.

At best, the good characters were only ever even with him and then surpassed the next time they're seen.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#293: Apr 22nd 2012 at 10:18:41 PM

Well I still think that's better than the treatment they all get later on when:

it's Goku, Gohan and Vegeta

[infinite gap]

Everyone else

Also I watched a few episodes from the old Ocean dub of DBZ. What can i say about it? Well, humans in the dub are able to evacuate the entire city before Nappa can blow it up.

So every random fodder is vastly superhuman.

That's pretty cool.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#294: Apr 22nd 2012 at 10:22:31 PM

I think it's worse.

It's better to not fight then to fight and have your pathetic performance played for laughs.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#295: Apr 22nd 2012 at 10:49:27 PM

Well I brought up the Cell Juniors for a reason. Do you honestly think anyone in Part 1 (since there is no "Z" in the mangam, I'll refer to them as Parts 1 and 2 from now on) was as humiliated as the non-Saiyans were in that "fight"?

Okay, maybe Yamcha vs. Kami in the 23rd Tournament but that's it.

edited 22nd Apr '12 10:50:19 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#296: Apr 22nd 2012 at 10:52:56 PM

Yes, everyone who wasn't Goku.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#297: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:20:58 PM

Dragonball had such fantastic music.

I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#298: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:23:17 PM

That song seems oddly familiar and yet I don't know if I've actually heard it before... unless they only played a part of it in the anime or something.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#299: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:30:11 PM

The last part (3:00 and up) I can remember hearing several times in the anime. The other parts, not so much.

It was the last part I was looking for on YT. I loved it so much.

edited 23rd Apr '12 5:30:59 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#300: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:31:25 PM

Yeah the last part definitely sounded familiar.


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