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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29951: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:11:16 AM

Its like...why do we have to take the piss out of a character's suffering? If they deserve it sure, but I don't believe "Fans of the character are obnoxious" is good reasoning :V

It's not quite the same. People enjoy laughing at Vegeta's suffering because he deserves it. It's funny to watch Vegeta get broken and humbled because Vegeta is a remorseless mass murderer who likes to talk shit about how great he is.

With Yamcha, people aren't laughing at him suffering, they're laughing at him failing. It wouldn't be funny to watch Yamcha be systematically taken apart the way Vegeta frequently is, but watching him boast about how hot his shit is only to be abruptly exploded for his hubris is hilarious. There's a reason why Yamcha's corpse huddled in a crater is hilarious enough to be memetic while Yamcha screaming and bleeding all over 20's arm is still considered horrific. Only one of these got made into a figurine.

Yamcha, like Vegeta, would be an incredibly obnoxious character if he was allowed to actually succeed all the time. He only achieves endearing, likable status as a character by being such a f*ck-up. The audience is simply divided on whether Yamcha's constant failure is sympathetic, hilarious, or both.

edited 30th Nov '15 9:13:04 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#29952: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:28:37 AM

Oh, another issue I have with Super. TOEI sneaking in all their filler. The giant cricket I can get used to but Frog Ginyu? Granted, they did the same with Garlic Junior and GT, I don't know why I'm expecting them to change.

I don't even know why it's getting on my nerves now. It's like pushing two buttons at once. They have to redo the plots of two perfectly good movies and then stretch them out with their time padding artifacts from the Anime adaptation, because those were oh so important.

And in redoing the plot they seem to miss the point. Tagoma? The one who was blown into space for Stating the Simple Solution? Maybe he was done away with early for a reason! He's leading the Freeza Force on Earth? Character Derailment at its finest. They had the big scary red guy who didn't flinch when a Freezer's berating, murder and endangerment of his own forces, fought even with a Piccolo much stronger than Namek saga Freezer, briefly holding the advantage and incited Gohan to turn Super Saiyan. Am I mistaken, does narrative 101 not say that's the guy to give a bigger role in Freezer's training, in the attack on Earth?

edited 30th Nov '15 9:29:02 AM by IndirectActiveTransport

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#29953: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:35:30 AM

I thought frog Ginyu was canon to the manga?

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Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
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#29954: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:49:40 AM

[up] He is. His filler adventures aren't.

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29955: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:51:04 AM

I know the whole deal of him taking Bulma's body was non-canon.

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29956: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:52:51 AM

I guess this also means he didn't qualify as "truly evil" despite being second-in-command of a genocide corporation...

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29957: Nov 30th 2015 at 9:54:01 AM

I don't hate Yamcha. I just love making fun of him because he's fun to make fun of.

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BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
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#29958: Nov 30th 2015 at 10:01:19 AM

[up][up]Between him and Pilaf, it really makes you wonder who did qualify.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29959: Nov 30th 2015 at 10:11:26 AM

That Frog Ginyu happened is in the manga. Everything else isn't; it isn't even known for certain if he made it off Planet Namek before it exploded. Arguments can be made forHEY  or againstLISTEN . And even if he did make it to Earth, the idea that he can still use his Body Change technique is entirely an invention of Toei.

Also, as noted above, even if he made it to Earth and can use his Body Change, he would have died when Majin Buu destroyed the Earth and then been snubbed by the wish to revive everyone who died except the evil people. Assuming, of course, that Namekian frogs even live that long.

There are a lot of reasons why Ginyu's return is ridiculous.

[up] Pilaf wasn't that bad. He was selfish and amoral, but even the worst deed he's ever committed, the revival of Piccolo Daimao, was rooted more in suicidal overconfidence than anything else; he honestly believed he could control him, because he's stupid. He's a tinpot dictator of a micronation consisting entirely of two subjects with aspirations of grandeur.

He's certainly an asshole, but he's nowhere near Ginyu or Vegeta or Frieza. I'd argue that even Commander Red outranks him on the diabolical villainy scale.

edited 30th Nov '15 10:16:12 AM by TobiasDrake

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Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#29960: Nov 30th 2015 at 10:18:07 AM

Didn't Ginyu kill men who failed their Ginyu Force auditions?

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29961: Nov 30th 2015 at 10:18:42 AM

Well hey, if Vegeta can be revived by the wish despite slaughtering innocents a day or two prior, who's to say Ginyu's peaceful time as a frog wasn't enough to qualify him as good enough to be revived?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
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#29964: Nov 30th 2015 at 12:03:38 PM

Dammit, those always make me curious.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#29965: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:12:00 PM

[up][up][up][up] They got blasted off. I dunno if that was enough to kill them.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29966: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:17:48 PM

Ginyu's survival is even weirder when you consider Word of God's statement that Crane Hermit and Tao did qualify as "truly evil."

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#29967: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:20:53 PM

The anime's contradict pre-established Word of God. Ergo, the movie's version of events are canon.

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
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#29968: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:23:10 PM

Also, as noted above, even if he made it to Earth and can use his Body Change, he would have died when Majin Buu destroyed the Earth and then been snubbed by the wish to revive everyone who died except the evil people. Assuming, of course, that Namekian frogs even live that long. There are a lot of reasons why Ginyu's return is ridiculous.

Yes but then you have to think about the fact that they wished for all the good people since Babidi came to Earth to come back.

What about the animals? Did they ever wish for the animals back or was there no wildlife until they used the dragon balls to wipe people's memories of Buu?

If that's the case then Frog Ginyu being alive makes sense. They probably didn't wish for the good animals back to life just the animals in general. Or it's a hole in the story in which case there should be no animals on Earth.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29969: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:25:27 PM

You could probably say that animals got brought back as a part of the earth, like all other forms of life apparently did besides people.

That's the good thing about the Dragonballs, the dragons they summon aren't assholes who take things too literally or twist wishes for unintended consequences.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:26:33 PM by LSBK

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#29970: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:26:33 PM

[up] That also makes sense for Frog Ginyu to still be alive.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29971: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:31:42 PM

Eh, I call misleading phrasing. "All other forms of life" here has the definition of Android 8 who, like 16 when they did it with Cell's victims, would have been snubbed by the wish to resurrect everyone because the dragon doesn't consider him alive in the first place, but would have been reconstituted with the Earth for the same reason. Porunga considers him an object, not a person.

Android 8 is a single data point. He is not a pattern.

It's never been suggested that a separate wish was made to revive the wildlife which means we're left with one or the other. Either Porunga considers them to be people or objects. Here's the trick: if Porunga considers them to be objects, then Captain Ginyu was left on Namek to die with the rest of the wildlife and never made it to Earth in the first place. If he considers them people, then Captain Ginyu made it to Earth but wouldn't have been revived by the wish that leaves all evil people dead.

He either died on Namek or he died in Buumageddon.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:33:02 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29972: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:34:08 PM

[up]That's only if you assume I'm including him as a life.

The dragon can bring back Android 8 on the grounds that he constitutes part of the planet while using a different criteria to bring back animals.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29973: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:37:21 PM

What different criteria? Two wishes were made: one was to put the planet back, the other was to resurrect everyone who died, except for the evil ones. Android 8 was revived by the first wish because he's an object. The humans were revived by the second wish because they were people. The animals were revived by one wish or the other, dependent on whether Porunga considers them to be objects or people.

Porunga would not have just thrown in a free, unsolicited wish to resurrect all the animals as a gift-with-purchase, if that's what you're suggesting. The dragons don't twist wishes to cruel means, but they also don't go out of their way to make your wish as palatable as possible, either. They give you only what you ask for, no more, no less.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:38:35 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
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#29974: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:44:20 PM

Yeah I'll have to assume that a separate wish was made to restore all wildlife on Earth then.

Or you can go with the idea that Porunga had a philosophical change on what constitutes life.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:45:25 PM by MadSkillz

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#29975: Nov 30th 2015 at 1:49:38 PM

Did they ever specifically say that Android 16 wasn't brought back?

I thought it was ambiguous.


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