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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29851: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:39:10 AM

Ah, yeah Vegito puts a damper on that.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29852: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:39:48 AM

Still assuming that he's high Super Saiyan 1. Lemmie put it this way (my opinion): SS 1 Gohan < Kaioshin < SS 1 Vegeta < SS 1 Goku.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29853: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:40:48 AM

[up][up][up]Fusions don't count as separate characters, remember?

edited 29th Nov '15 12:41:07 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29854: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:41:33 AM

Well, I mean, that's not an opinion.

Opinions cannot, by definition, be right or wrong.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29855: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:41:34 AM

[up][up]Which doesn't change anything? He's still a Super Saiyan 1, regardless of whether he's a separate character or not.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:41:58 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29856: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:43:56 AM

Fusion changes things, and you know it. All NON-FUSED S S1s < S S2s < S S3s.

[up][up]And this opinion, currently, cannot be proven right or wrong.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:45:12 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29857: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:50:53 AM

Yes, but opinions cannot, by their natures, be proven right or wrong.

"It's a nice day outside" is an opinion. It's entirely subjective.

What you said could be right or wrong, we just lack the evidence to determine whether it is or not.

No amount of evidence could prove whether it's a nice day outside, because that is a subjective opinion of one person.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29858: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:52:03 AM

The only way I see fusion changing things is making the users more powerful

ergo a sufficiently powerful Super Saiyan could be stronger than a Super Saiyan 2

Your stance is undermined by Vegetto's very existence and now you're just saying he doesn't count

Much like how Super Saiyan Future Trunks was weaker than base Future Gohan in the manga.waii

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29859: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:54:03 AM

[up][up]Until sufficient evidence is put forward, this is entirely subjective.

Just like how Piccolo vs Goten or Trunks was subjective until the most recent chapter of Dragon Ball Super, when Piccolo is established as the third strongest non-god, after Gohan and Buu.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:54:26 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29860: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:55:18 AM

[up][up]Points

Saiga: more

Salagir: less

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29861: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:55:48 AM

What that is is more of a belief than anything.

Opinions are entirely different than beliefs for many reasons that would take a long time to explain.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29862: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:57:17 AM

That's not actually what happened in the Super chapter. Goten and Trunks were never compared to Piccolo, and Piccolo was never said to be the third strongest.

That completely ignores Gotenks, for instance, who is absolutely stronger than Piccolo. You might come up with an explanation for that but then you're back into subjective territory. Why Goten/Trunks/Gotenks weren't considered is subjective, and we've got some backing that it's not just about power in the form of Revival of F leaving them out for other reasons.

The most objective thing we have is Gohan = Goten > Piccolo from the Daizenshuu, so then it becomes subjective whether to trust the Daizenshuu or not.

[up][up] I don't understand what you mean?

edited 29th Nov '15 12:59:22 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29863: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:57:35 AM

[up][up]Looked it up. Opinion and Belief are synonyms.

[up]Goten and Trunks are never even considered. Piccolo must be leagues ahead of them.

Salagir is the one who popularized that opinion.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:59:50 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29864: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:59:41 AM

In a dictionary/thesaurus, things are often generalized.

They're quite different for a lot of reasons, but are listed as synonyms because they're close enough in meaning to match.

There are other examples I could present like that, but it's way too late and this discussion ultimately doesn't matter all that much.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29865: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:59:42 AM

[up][up] Neither is Gotenks. Again, this is subjective.

edited 29th Nov '15 12:59:49 AM by Saiga

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#29866: Nov 29th 2015 at 12:59:57 AM

Just like how Piccolo vs Goten or Trunks was subjective until the most recent chapter of Dragon Ball Super, when Piccolo is established as the third strongest non-god, after Gohan and Buu.

I thought that was proven when Buutenks turned into Buuiccolo after Gotenks unfused. If Piccolo wasn't stronger he would've turned into Buuten or Buunks.

But then again it could be based off something other than power level. Maybe it's based off of intelligence in which case Gohan is smarter than Piccolo. All that studying did something after all.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:01:22 AM by MadSkillz

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29867: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:02:11 AM

[up] i refer you to this, where I point out the problems with that idea.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29868: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:03:18 AM

[up][up]That should've made it obvious fact but some people still believe everything the Daizenshuu tells them.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:03:36 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#29869: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:04:52 AM

@Mad: Actually, you gave me a good example about what I was talking to PMC about.

Knowledgeable and smart are rather different, even though they're synonyms. One has to do with now much you know and the other has to do with how much information your brain can process (to crudely sum up), but in the thesaurus, they're listed as synonyms.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:05:20 AM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#29870: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:05:02 AM

@Saiga Ah, good point. You live up to your title.cool

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29871: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:05:39 AM

[up][up][up] knock it off with the passive-aggressiveness. I don't even base my argument off the Daizenshuu because I don't believe Goten is Gohan's equal, I just mention it for those that do follow it.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:05:50 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29872: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:10:29 AM

The Dai Kaioshin is a special circumstance, and should be discounted as it is an outlier with many other explanations: the Dai Kaioshin takes precedent over South Kaioshin because of his status, the Dai Kaioshin was actually stronger than the South because East didn't include him when he said that the South was the strongest, or that the Dai Kaioshin only had the influence he had because of him being pure good, overriding everything else.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29873: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:11:59 AM

And the Dai Kaioshin isn't the only reason I argue against that absorption scene.

The fact that you have to come up with those explanations yourself means that it's simply not objective, anyway.

edited 29th Nov '15 1:12:34 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29874: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:15:38 AM
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#29875: Nov 29th 2015 at 1:40:07 AM

Future SS Trunks vs future base Gohan lol


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